2008 Cadillac CTS: A Decade Later

Cadillacs have horrible residual value. My father's '02 Deville is only worth $6000 on a trade. Definitely a used car treasure for those wanting a luxury car.

I positively hate the CTS in the shade of red. It looks much better in black, white diamond, thunder grey or silver.
 
I loved the FWD STS- especially from '02 - '04. It was no more problem proned than any Audi or MB of the same era. See Brent, your story would be more telling if you guys had LT tests of the competiting models. I'd rather pay $5,107 for a pre-owned P.O.S. Caddy than triple that for a comparable P.O.S. European car.

The depreciation on Cadillac's and Saabs are truly frightening....or inviting, depending upon your viewpoint. Those buyers of new ones are frightfully unaware of the tremendous equity they are throwing away (unless they keep 'em for 20 years, which they don't judging by the plethora on the used car market).
 
I still have seriously scoped up a 2004 Saab 9-5 Aero 5-speed....~250 HP, very good mileage, plenty of luxury accoutrements, and around ~$16k for one with 30-40k miles on it.
 
I might pay the reaper on repair costs, but that car is worth about ~40% of it's MSRP after 3-4 years. And it's a safe and enjoyable car.
 
I think the new CTS will help pull Caddy's resales out of the dumpster.
 
Joe

"Hot" Cadillacs, in general, do not have terrible resale. It's cars like the Deville/DTS that are heavily fleeted (anything your local Enterprise has a few of...it happens), and you know this going in, especially with the big cash on the hood from day one. Happens with any brand, actually.
 
That isn't the case with cars like the CTS, or even the Escalade from time to time. They now really do sell on style, performance, features, and just plain merit...they look fantastic, have the drive and quality to back it up, and in the case of the CTS, just offer a drop dead package.
 
It is a great comparo to bring up the '98 STS, GREAT. A member of a Cadillac owner's board, those cars have their fans, but are really jokes compared to what is being produced today. Heavy and V8/FWD? Gone. Frequent little glitches and just general materials & assembly quality below a modern day Chevy? Gone.
 
The result? Good riddance. I hope this CTS, like the Enclave, turns into a really great thing for the Edmunds editors, in every way. Maybe not the car for each person, but an undeniable knock out.

Just read the '98 STS LT wrap-up... yowza!
  
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/LongTerm/articleId=44038

"Cadillacs have horrible residual value. My father's '02 Deville is only worth $6000 on a trade."
 
Thats a little hard to believe when I got $5500 for a 2002 Alero on trade and they are retailing for $8k or so in this area.
 
"I think the new CTS will help pull Caddy's resales out of the dumpster. "
 
They arent in the dumpster. In 2005 or 2006 Caddy was #2 or #3 in luxury sales. They were #4 last year behind Lexus, BMW and MB. Their sales are up 16% this year while Lexus sales are down. I believe MB and BMW sales are down as well. Cadillac handily outsells Lincoln, Acura, Infiniti and Audi.
 
The STS may not have had fit and finish equivalent to that of the current model or CTS but the materials were nice. The leather was high quality and the plastics were soft touch. The woodgrain was amongst the best offered at that time and still looks better than the fake stuff you find in current Acuras or the real stuff in Infinitis.

Thats a shame about the old STS, I thought that was a nice looking car. Perhaps not sporty like the CTS, but it was perfectly "Caddilac-y" looking to me.

"Just read the '98 STS LT wrap-up... yowza! "
 
yeah its incredible because we all know MBs and Audis of that time were reliable as swiss watches. Do you remember the 1998 M class? I do. That vehicle set new low standards for German quality and reliability.

You can’t compare the build quality of the new CTS with that of a 98 Seville. That plant that builds the CTS didn’t exist until 3 years after that Seville was built.
 
  The Lansing Grand River Cadillac plant was built in 2001, and is one of the most state-of-art assembly plants in the world. It has won countless awards in productivity and quality since it was opened. The J.D. Power and Harbour awards are already starting to pile up, and the plant is only 7 years old.

That STS was a first model year vehicle and was loaded with technology. We know that German cars were famous for electronic gremlins just like the STS but the difference is that such problems were dismissed by the media and some owners as part of the experience.
 
The STS' quality wasnt likely related to the plant because the Lesabre (and Lucerne now) was built at the same plant and had no major quality issues that I know of. The DTS is still built there and I haven't heard anything negative about that car from a quality perspective.
 
One thing is for sure, the long term wrap ups were a lot more thorough than they are today. Cadillac isnt the only thing that has changed since 2000.

Doug, I liked the old STS styling too, especially the rear three-quarter view. Thought it looked pretty cool.
 
As for the new CTS, no question it's a huge improvement over the first-gen car. But I think our car's wheels look undersized. Slap some bigger (and more stylish) wheels on there and it would look great.
 
Josh

The big thing that I remember about STS's is how good they are in the snow. With decent tires, StabliTrack and Traction Control, those old STS's were pretty unstoppable.

1487 -
 
KBB lists a 2002 Deville "touring" w/ 70000 miles and in "good" condition as worth ~$8000. Since KBB is almost always high, and "good" condition is very rare among 6 year old vehicles, I imagine that scenario is not unlikely.
 
To give a comparison, I just traded in a 2003 Saturn Ion 5-speed w/ 58500 miles on it for $5400. How is it that a 1 year newer SATURN (economy car) w/ only a few thousand less miles on it could be worth within even $2000 on trade-in to an STS?
 
Terrible resale values. Which, by the way, I quoted terrible resale values and you said, "They aren't in the dumpster. Cadillac outsells blah blah blah." First off, I didn't quote their current sales, I referred to their resale values. Which suck, on a whole.
 
Second, how much of Cadillac's sales are too limousine companies? Fleets in general?
 
The CTS and Escalade have helped tremendously, now it's time to round out the pack. Every automaker can afford 1 sub-par model.....lets see the STS and DTS continue the CTS trend.
 
Joe

1487, why do you care so much about the media? And other owners? If you like the STS then ok. No one else has to.
 
I agree with Joe...the STS is ok, but the DTS and XLR are now dragging Cadillac down. I hope that their refresh or replacements do the new CTS and the rest of the updated Cadillac lineup justice.

The DTS is the perfect car for the market that it is going after. Older people that still like the big boat feeling don’t have very many options left. There’s still a demand for a big luxury highway cruiser with FWD. There aren’t too many cars that are better made to handle the needs of the older snow bird’s annual migration from up north to Florida.

It's funny how people on here post as if they represent what the majority of car buyers are looking for. A last generation FWD STS or current DTS is likely an improvement over what most people are driving today. I'd be happy to drive either. Contrary to what some of you may believe, the majority of car buyers can't tell the difference between a FWD or RWD car. The STS may have had its share of issues but it was a 1st generation car that exhibited teething problems shared with plenty of other makes and models. Not making excuses, just trying to level the playing field. The STS had a much nicer interior (asthetically) than the dark and stark Germans of the time. Check out the E-Class interior to see my point.

“Contrary to what some of you may believe, the majority of car buyers can't tell the difference between a FWD or RWD car.”
 
If you live in the Snow Belt you know exactly what the difference is between FWD and RWD. Almost anybody where I live can tell you the difference between the two of them. The northern parts of our country live with the possibility of a snow storm from November all the way through to March or April. Even if it’s not snowing there is a good chance of black ice on the roads for early morning commuters almost 6 months of the year.

This is what I think of when I imagine Caddy - took this from my car a week or two ago:

 

In response to people who have attacked the '98 STS's German rivals for reliablity you are actually quite wrong. The previous generation E-Class was one of the most reliable cars Mercedes has ever built, even Consumer Reports listed it in their top ten for multiple consecutive years. The BMW 5-Series of similar vintage was also lauded for its reliablity and quality. Do not confuse the present with the past.
 
Secondly, I have made it very clear that I do not like the CTS's over-the-top styling, but in that photograph it actually looks quite stunning.

Hey, I saw a white Catera in similar condition.

"It's funny how people on here post as if they represent what the majority of car buyers are looking for."
 
Valid point, but IL is the enthusiast's arm of Edmunds and the people who tend to post here reflect that. I wouldn't really want to speak for the masses that drive 4-cylinder Camrys or the other bloated beige blobs everywhere.
 
"This is what I think of when I imagine Caddy - took this from my car a week or two ago:"
 
LOL... a vinyl-roofed Caddy is still fairly common in Metro Detroit, let me tell you. Some people just can't leave the 1970's behind.

"Hey, I saw a white Catera in similar condition."
 
The Caddy that zigs!?? Never!

Bimmerjay,
 
I wish I'd had a camera handy to snap a G35 I saw in La Jolla a few months ago. It was sporting the always classy vinyl roof. rofl
 
There's a guy in traffic that I see all the time. He's replaced Infiniti with S-K-Y-L-I-N-E and he has a license plate calling his car a G Coupe (with an accent on the e). Sad. But good for a laugh.

"He's replaced Infiniti with S-K-Y-L-I-N-E"
 
There is nothing wrong with that, The G coupe is Skyline in JDM.

louis, Yeah, I bet it adds 5 HP. Just like his accented e in coupe. It's a poseur move, like a vinyl roof or chrome dubs.

Anyone with me on our CTS wheels looking undersized and kinda boring?

I am with you. I don't think the wheels look boring but it is definitely undersized. It'll also look better if it is not chromed, I think either the gunmetal or silver paint finish would look much better.

I like the STS but you would have to drive with a very light foot to not know it was FWD. Torque steer was very apparent.
 
Early models did have bugs but I've known several people that put serious miles on them with out major problems.
 
Right now I would list the mid to late 90's STS models as one of the great luxury performance bargains out there.

1487,
 
Let me help you out with some facts and figures.
 
2008 YTD Sales figures
Mercedes - 57,600 up 3%
Cadillac - (could not locate actual figure) down 1% (from Detroit Free Press)
BMW - 58,635 down 13.4%
 
March 2008 Sales
 
PRE-ENTRY LEVEL
1. Acura TSX - 2,280
2. Volvo S40 - 1,528
3. BMW 1-Series - 1,496
 
ENTRY-LEVEL
1. BMW 3-Series - 11,226
2. Infiniti G - 8,269
3. Mercedes-Benz C-Class - 6,713
4. Cadillac CTS - 6,045
5. Lexus ES - 6,019
6. Lexus IS - 4,798
7. Acura TL - 4,269
8. Audi A4 - 4,061
9. Lincoln MKZ - 3,501
10. Saab 9-3 - 2,133
11. Volvo S60 - 1,243
12. Jaguar X-Type - 46
 
MID-LEVEL
1. BMW 5-Series - 3,667
2. Mercedez-Benz E-Class - 3,039
3. Infiniti M - 1,753
4. Lexus GS - 1,668
5. Volvo S80 - 1,629
6. Cadillac STS - 1,486
7. Jaguar XF - 1,161
8. Audi A6 - 898
9. Acura RL - 548
10. Saab 9-5 - 316
11. Jaguar S-Type - 80
 
FLAGSHIP
1. Lexus LS - 2,125
2. Mercedez-Benz S-Class - 1,622
3. BMW 7-Series - 1,467
4. Audi A8 - 249
5. Jaguar XJ - 218

linard,
 
what helpful information.
it shows jaguar really needs to get their act together.

Something else I find interesting...
 
Insurance Institute Summary for Large Luxury Cars
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/datatables.aspx?class=10&type=f
 
For Midsize Luxury Cars
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/datatables.aspx?class=15&type=f
 
Impressive structural rigidity in the new C class but it might be too solid? It's almost as if nothing happens to the passenger compartment except that the steering wheel moves AWAY from you.

Ah Crap! There is that Saturn comparison again! Every post usually contains one Saturn related comment! They should change the name from Inside line to Insecure Line.
 
I doubt if the original owners who bought the car would have held on to their cars until now because they are either dead from old age or they would have enough money that they would not have held on to a car for 10+ years.
 
I demand GM to cut Saturn off! Give it to former makers of Yugos. It was a brand that never really made any sort of impression on me. Even Hyundai is oozing with sex now with new Genesis models. But Saturn? Where is the appeal? Plastic panels? Bwahaha! I would rather drive a car made from maple ham slices. And now I am growing to hate Saturn owners (kinda like SAAB and Volvo owners).

"Second, how much of Cadillac's sales are too limousine companies? Fleets in general? "
 
Cadilac has ONE model that sells to fleets in appreciable numbers, the DTS. When is the last time you saw an STS or Escalade at Enterprise? Give me a break.

"1487, why do you care so much about the media? And other owners? If you like the STS then ok. No one else has to.
  
I agree with Joe...the STS is ok, but the DTS and XLR are now dragging Cadillac down. I hope that their refresh or replacements do the new CTS and the rest of the updated Cadillac lineup justice."
 
The media liked the STS when it was new. C&D and MT gave it very positive reviews. Back in 1998 Edmunds.com hated 90% of the domestic vehicles on the market so I really wouldnt consider their opinion to be worth much when it comes to objectivity. Read some other sources from the time and you will see where I am coming from.
 
The DTS is CAdillac's 2nd best selling car. I fail to see how its dragging the brand down. It has plenty of space and a very nice interior and is competitively priced. The problem is some folks feel that any car that isnt a direct BMW competitor is a "drag" on a brand. cadilalc isnt BMW and they arent trying to be. Once you accept that you will see the value of the DTS.
 
The XLR is so low volume that its not helping or hurting the brand. It is being updated for 2009.

bdc,
 
can you post that pointless picture again? some of us didnt see it the first few times you posted it in other blogs. If your point is that some people have bad taste I think we got the message.
 
linard,
 
I dont need help with my facts. I said BMW and Lexus were down and I thought MB was down but I see they are not. Cadillac is up so far this year per media.gm.com. What facts are you correcting me on exactly? The CTS is outselling the ES350, G35 sedan and TL which is pretty impressive to me. I see you totally left out truck sales which is interesting. I said as a BRAND Cadillac is up and BMW and LExus are down so far. Did you disprove that?
 
BTW, According to cars.com 2002 Devilles are selling for $9k-$17k in this area.

"Anyone with me on our CTS wheels looking undersized and kinda boring?"
 
They are not undersized but they are boring. CAdillac's wheel designs of late have been lacking. The CTS definitely needs better standard 17" rims and 18" rims although the 17s are far worse than the 18s. There are another set of 18s available through the dealer. The last gen CTS actually had better rims at the end of its model run. The Malibu, CTS, Astra, Aura and Impala all have better rims available than the CTS.

"I really wouldnt consider their opinion to be worth much when it comes to objectivity. "
 
Read: They're opinion doesn't match mine, so I'm just going to throw it out the window with an impossible-to-prove generalization.
 
"Cadilac has ONE model that sells to fleets in appreciable numbers, the DTS"
 
Seems to me that there are two models, no?
 
BDC: Some of us ACTUALLY didn't see the picture, so good call.
 
"The DTS is CAdillac's 2nd best selling car. I fail to see how its dragging the brand down"
 
Its possible to be the second best selling car and still bring a brand down.

"Read: They're opinion doesn't match mine, so I'm just going to throw it out the window with an impossible-to-prove generalization. "
 
wrong as usual. I said in my previous post that the 1998 STS was generally well liked by the media so the idea that I am off base by suggesting its not as bad as edmunds said is nonsense. It's a pretty simple idea to grasp. Edmunds.com didnt have a kind word to say about any domestically branded cars in the 90s so saying the STS must have been crap because they didnt endorse it is like saying Obama or Hillary must be incompetent because Fox News doesnt have any kind words to say about them. Thats why its important to survey a wide range of sources before forming an opinion. There was NOT a consensus amongst the automotive press that the STS was crappy.
 
"Seems to me that there are two models, no?"
 
Which two? The DTS is the only Caddy that is sold to fleet customers on a regular basis. Have you seen a lot of STS' or CTS' used as coach cars for execs? I surely havent, nor have I ever seen either vehicle at a rental car lot. I do know some places rented the old CTS but its not common.
 
"Its possible to be the second best selling car and still bring a brand down."
 
You nor anyone else has explained how its dragging the brand down. The fact that you dont like it because its not a RWD sports sedan doesnt mean its dragging the brand down. If the car is selling well and appealing to a wide range of customers and Cadillac's year to date sales are up I would have to say the DTS isnt dragging anything down. But thats just using logic. If the "experts" here say the DTS is crap it must be so.

"Which two?".
 
The second one I was referring to is the Escalade. But I may be confusing the definition of a limousine here, as I was intending it to mean "stretch limousine", so my comment may not be valid if you were just talking about short limos.
 
"You nor anyone else has explained how its dragging the brand down. "
 
I was simply correcting your generalization, as opposed to bashing the DTS.
 
edit: content

In terms of reviews for the 98 STS, the I couldn't seem to find a C/D one, but a MT one was about on par with Edmunds. I wouldn't call either "very positive", but I also don't think they're too negative. They seem to be middle of the road. This is keeping in mind that due to the age of the car and the age of online publishing, neither is a complete review. Unlike some other users, I don't have an archive of MT and C/D magazines to quote from.
 
http://www.motortrend.com/buyersguide/preowned/112_0503_1998_2003_cadillac_seville_sts

1487, I may have to create multiple IDs and post it nonstop for you. If I took a pic of every tacky caddy I see, well that would be all of them. Thankfully, they're still rare on the West Coast so my eyes aren't scorched by the absurdity of Caddys too much.
 
Have a great day. Keep smiling!

Joe "Second, how much of Cadillac's sales are too limousine companies? Fleets in general? "
  
1487's reply: "Cadilac has ONE model that sells to fleets in appreciable numbers, the DTS. When is the last time you saw an STS or Escalade at Enterprise? Give me a break."
 
Give you a break? Why? I said how much of Cadillac's sales are to fleets? I didn't specify it needed to be the whole portfolio of cars.
 
Let's do some basic math. I took Linard's numbers and added them up: the "hot selling" CTS and the somewhat aged STS combine to sell about 7,500 cadillac's in March....Cadillac sold about 17,500 cars in total. Do we know how much the Escalade sold? It's no longer the newest kid on the block and is an absolute gas hog, so I imagine a few thousand.
 
My guess would be that the DTS's March sales numbers were around 5000-6000.
 
If my theory is correct, then Cadillac is selling as many DTS's as their hot new CTS is selling.
 
I'm willing to bet most of those are fleet sales.
 
Joe

"1487, I may have to create multiple IDs and post it nonstop for you. If I took a pic of every tacky caddy I see, well that would be all of them. Thankfully, they're still rare on the West Coast so my eyes aren't scorched by the absurdity of Caddys too much. "
 
Oh...good one! Your bias is absurd. On the one hand we have the press giving tons of accolades to the CTS and other recent cadillacs and on the other hand we have BDC who hates all domestic branded cars and then wants us to value his "2 cents" about Cadillacs. If you hate domestic cars I fail to see why your opinion should be valid? You have made it clear on numerous occasions that you dont judge domestic branded vehicles based on merits because they all stink and thus I take whatever you say with a grain of salt.
 
"I'm willing to bet most of those are fleet sales. "
 
Not based on data I have seen. By the way "most" could mean 51% or 95% of sales.
 
Cadillac only sold 3363 DTS' in March which indicates they are cutting back fleet sales. Either way Cadillac's car sales are mostly retail, not fleet. They sold 6423 Escaldes and SRXs in March and most of those certainly are not going to enterprise or livery companies.
Hopefully thats not too much hyperbole for you.
 
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=44734

1487,
 
Lighten up. I'm merely cheering on what - hope, hope - is happening in my lifetime: the demise of domestic brands.
 
Sleep well!

Yeah, that makes sense blueguydotcom, because we'd all love to see all domestic industry go belly up, wouldn't we?
 
Irrational hatred of self or society isn't a good thing. I'd be all with you if we were making bad stuff, but that's generally not the case any more.

the quality of the product is irrelevant to BDC, he hates them because they are based in America for whatever reason. That alone proves that nothing he says should be taken seriously. What happened to the days when those who loved American cars were the ignorant bigots who refused to see the light? One has to be pretty ignorant to enbrace the concept of less competiton on the market. Who knows how ugly Asian cars would be if the domestic industry dried up. Vehicles like the Malibu, Fusion, 300, etc. inject style into mass market vehicles. If the Big 3 go under we will be left with designs such as the new Murano, the new Maxima and the Pilot. Thats not a future I would want to have.

I wonder if BDC hates foreign cars that are designed and built in NA....