Phill home CNG unit has cut fuel costs 30%, and best is yet to come.
When we posted our methodology for computing fuel economy in the natural gas Civic GX now that we're using a home CNG pump, several people wanted to know how much the fuel cost.
We didn't have an answer back then because we hadn't received our first home gas and electric bills and had no basis for figuring out a cost per gallon.
Well, the bills are in, we've done the conversions (one therm of natural gas is the equivalent of .784 gallons of gasoline) and the math and submitted our first expense report.
We pumped the GNG equivalent of 51.888 gasoline gallons through the Phill home unit during March, and figure that electricity to run the pump cost $40.29 while the natural gas itself cost $91.69, for total cost of $131.46, or $2.53 per gallon...
That's $1.18 less than the prevailing price of unleaded regular gasoline in our part of Southern California, and anywhere from 7-cents to 32- cents a gallon-equivalent less than the various retail GNG pumps in the area are charging for their natural gas. (The range is so great because one pump is operated by a city and is priced pretty much at cost -- it was $2.60 a gallon when we checked two days ago).
But that's just the first step.
We have just received authorization from our natural gas utility for a home refuling unit discount that should drop the cost of fillling up with the Phill to well below $2 per gallon.
We're expecting the first bill that reflects the discount to arrive at the end of the month and we'll let you know what the new cost-per-gallon is as soon as we crunch the numbers.
John O'Dell, Senior Editor @ 15,147 miles.
ewilfong says:
01:35 PM, 04/17/08
Very cool. And there's also something to be said for the convenience of gassing up your car at home.
automaton says:
02:23 PM, 04/17/08
Wow, I had no idea that electricity was such a big part of the cost of this system.
estreka says:
03:03 PM, 04/17/08
That's fantastic. I'm assuming this car will remain in the LT fleet for a few years?
makabe says:
03:54 PM, 04/17/08
Do you also get the clean air vehicle carpool lane stickers on the Civic GX?
chevy598 says:
05:29 PM, 04/17/08
If you live in a state that doesn't give that refuling discount I don't think it's worth it. Over $3,000 to install plus $2.53 a gallon seems pricey to me.
The price of NG can be costly in the winter especially when they have supply issues like they have had before. hypotheticaly if gas drops a $1.00gal, and they have a NG pipeline break in the winter it could end up costing more to use NG.
If you don't get that discount it only costs $.07 to $.32 more to fill up at a station. How can a fuel station sell that so cheap?
aspade says:
05:36 PM, 04/17/08
So you spent $3,000 to save 7 cents a gallon.
Only 1.3 million miles until PROFIT!
chevy598 says:
07:05 PM, 04/17/08
One note to the positive, the PHIL should qualify for some tax credits at the state level. My state has a couple different energy tax credits. I could save another $500 and maybe even $1,000 dollars on my state taxes. So on top of the Feds $1,000 credit the PHIL would only cost $2,500 to maybe even as low as $2,000. Some states might even get more or less.
John,
Is that home refueling unit discount a state or federal discount? Just wondering if everybody gets it or just you guys out in CA. It does make an at home PHIL a lot more attractive getting that discount.
I can’t see the government keeping that discount if NG cars ever went main stream and automakers were selling 6 million a year in the USA. There going to have to make up for lost gas tax revenue. As soon as people started buying on the internet and stopped buying at brick and mortar stores they have wanted to start a new tax. The government makes up for lost revenue by looking for new places to get it.
comp386 says:
05:21 AM, 04/18/08
Are you guys sure this math is right? $40 worth of electricity to run the pump comes to 400 kWh at $.1 per kWh. That's enough to recharge the Tesla Roadster 8 times and travel well over 1000 miles.
texases says:
06:24 AM, 04/18/08
Two questions: why should other natural gas users subsidize this type of thing (the discount you mentioned)? And why should all gasoline-burning road users subsidize your use of the road (no taxes paid)? Of course it's cheaper when it's subsidized up the wazoo!
chevy598 says:
06:42 AM, 04/18/08
Comp386,
When the NG tank is full it’s at 3,600psi. If the PHIL needs a compressor to get to 3,600psi, then that is where all the electricity is going. Compressors can be one of the most power hungry devices that you can run.
ahightower says:
09:15 AM, 04/18/08
Compared to a regular gasoline Civic:
CNG - same mpg, 30% cheaper fuel, limited range, have to buy a Phill or live and work and never stray far from home or a CNG retailer
Hybrid - 30% better mpg, fill it up anywhere, you can take it on a road trip, as traffic gets worse, MPG gets better
Both take several years (6-7 years?) to break even on the additional up front cost. By which time most of us will be trading in for something new anyway. Neither make financial sense yet, but if I felt the sudden urge to go green, I'd rather have the Hybrid.
texases says:
11:02 AM, 04/18/08
Yep, if I had decided to spend money to save money/gas, the hybrid makes much better sense all around.
bepperb says:
01:48 PM, 04/18/08
why should other natural gas users subsidize this type of thing (the discount you mentioned)? And why should all gasoline-burning road users subsidize your use of the road (no taxes paid)?
The nattygas users aren't subsidizing anything. Basically, the assumption is that the fixed costs of maitenance of the pipeline, meter rental, sg&a are all the same, and since you're using more product the price per unit goes down. It's the same deal they give businesses. A quantity discount if you will. They're hoping this catches on and they have more demand for their product.
The roads? No, the NG users should be taxed, and if they were (and probably will be if this catches on) the benifit would be even lower. Chalk one more up for a Hybrid instead.
$2.53? Really? That's not that great!
chevy598 says:
03:10 PM, 04/18/08
Add on the $.50/gal or $1.00/gal tax that you pay on a gallon of gas now, and there is no savings at all.
comp386 says:
07:55 AM, 04/21/08
I still can't get to your high energy usage on phill. From the my phill website, I got that this thing uses 800 watts and fills 6.4 liters in 4 hours. You guys used up 200 liters equivalent of fuel which gets me to 125 hours of usage for phill. That comes to about 100 kWh for usage in a month which is about a quarter for what you guys registered. Still makes me think though that this entire concept is extremely inefficient.
bepperb says:
09:05 AM, 04/21/08
If it used 800 watts, it wouldn't require a 220 volt 20 amp outlet (capable of supplying over 4400 watts). I know that's what the website says, but something is fishy.
Still, wish we could get a better measure of the electricity/ng used. 2.53 just doesn't seem that great.
chevy598 says:
11:43 AM, 04/21/08
If the Phil uses 800 watts continuously it could still easily be using 15amps or more during initial start up. I have an air compressor that uses 10amps when it is running, but draws up to 18amps when it is first started up. Compressors are ridiculously power hungry, and especially bad when they are first started up.
angel567 says:
04:56 PM, 09/ 4/08
Transitioning to gas has several broader advantages:
will diversify the nations transportation fuel
will keep the price of petroleum reasonable over the longer term
US has plentiful domestic supply of Nat gas
Reduce transfer of wealth to middle eastern nations
reduce nations current account deficit which will increase buying power of the dollar making americans wealthier
This will make US economy more efficient and competitive
reduce defence budget