There are those on staff who disagree with me on this fairly technical point, but here I go. I'm just not a fan of six-speed transmissions that (a) don't have a reverse lockout feature, and (b) have the reverse gear slot located immediately to the left of first. Why? Two reasons. First, you might shift into reverse instead of first, especially if you're not familiar with the car. Second, if the resistance separating the reverse gate from the others isn't firm enough, you could accidentally power through it and hang the shifter up in the no-man's land located due south of the reverse gate. This could happen during an overly enthusiastic third-to-second downshift, or perhaps during a rolling shift in traffic from neutral into second (you know, the kind where you slap the shifter over to the left and then down into second gear).
What's this got to do with our long-term Jetta, you ask? Well, even though the Jetta's only a five-speed, it has a reverse lockout feature, as do other VW/Audi products. It's really not necessary on a five-speed (only the truly ham-fisted could miss a fifth-to-fourth downshift by grinding up against reverse instead), but the Jetta's layout illustrates my point. If you want reverse, you press the shift knob down (some cars have a reverse-lockout ring instead that you pull up with your fingers) and then move the lever up and to the left of first gear. This diverts the lever into a special "reverse only" plane that's separate from (below?) the other gates. Leave the knob up, and there's no way you can grab reverse by accident. Moreover, there's no no-man's land, because the area to the left of first gear can only be accessed when the shift knob is depressed. It's exactly like driving a normal five-speed, with reverse located due south of fifth.
Compare this to the shifter in any modern BMW -- our long-term M3, for instance. In the M3, reverse is located directly left of first gear, and the only thing keeping you from grabbing reverse instead of first, or no-man's land instead of second, is some built-in lateral resistance. Power through that resistance by accident, and Oops! You're in a bad place. To my mind, this is an inferior design. Sure, the resistance is supposed to stop you from entering the reverse area, but what if the resistance wears down with time (as it seems to have done in the rubbery M3)? Or what if there's just not a lot of resistance in the first place (as is the case in our long-term Mini Cooper S)? Why bring this variable into play when you could simply install a reverse lockout instead?
I'm not saying it's likely that you'll accidentally power through the resistance. In fact, if you're an attentive driver, it might never happen. (Personally, I haven't yet encountered the no-man's land problem on the road in any car, but I have accidentally shifted into reverse instead of first in both the M3 and the Cooper.) But what bugs me is just the fact that there's a chance. The reverse lockout feature completely takes these gaffes out of play. That's why I prefer my six-speed shifters so equipped.
Josh Sadlier, Associate Editor, Edmunds.com
Compare this to the shifter in any modern BMW -- our long-term M3, for instance. In the M3, reverse is located directly left of first gear, and the only thing keeping you from grabbing reverse instead of first, or no-man's land instead of second, is some built-in lateral resistance. Power through that resistance by accident, and Oops! You're in a bad place. To my mind, this is an inferior design. Sure, the resistance is supposed to stop you from entering the reverse area, but what if the resistance wears down with time (as it seems to have done in the rubbery M3)? Or what if there's just not a lot of resistance in the first place (as is the case in our long-term Mini Cooper S)? Why bring this variable into play when you could simply install a reverse lockout instead?
I'm not saying it's likely that you'll accidentally power through the resistance. In fact, if you're an attentive driver, it might never happen. (Personally, I haven't yet encountered the no-man's land problem on the road in any car, but I have accidentally shifted into reverse instead of first in both the M3 and the Cooper.) But what bugs me is just the fact that there's a chance. The reverse lockout feature completely takes these gaffes out of play. That's why I prefer my six-speed shifters so equipped.
Josh Sadlier, Associate Editor, Edmunds.com
slickersdrip says:
07:05 PM, 04/25/08
That's a nice touch- I remember a couple years ago driving a 1963 VW with a four speed and having to depress the shifter to get into reverse.
estreka says:
07:48 PM, 04/25/08
I agree with you Josh. My S has the planed lockout as well (push down). It's a far better design than the one my old Alfa had, or my mom's old '95 Accord.
vacagrande says:
08:10 PM, 04/25/08
I've never had a problem with my BMW's 6-speed missing a shift to first, but I did like the reverse ring on the G35 6-speed I test drove. Just another thing to keep me from f-ing up the car on an early morning stumble into work.
roar02ram says:
08:20 PM, 04/25/08
I've definitely hit Reverse by accident in a VW. I didn't appreciate it at all and much prefer the Japanese automakers' manual transmission designs that put reverse back and to the right, where it belongs.
desmolicious says:
08:40 PM, 04/25/08
The 5 speed transmission in the Ruf Porsche (that replaced the then stock 4 speed that the early 911 turbos used) has reverse gear in the position that all other manuals have first gear. First is where second gear normally is. The shift from first to second is a dog leg up to the right.
Yah, I grazed reverse a couple of times shifting into second. Really not a good design.
blueguydotcom says:
10:15 PM, 04/25/08
I'm on my 3rd 6 speed and 4th car with reverse to the left. I've never accidentally put the car in reverse. I think it would take a serious amount of negligence to push a manual that hard accidentally.
Personally, it seems many people are far too rough with their manuals. Rather than sliding into gears they manhandle the shifter as if they were driving an 18 wheeler. It takes a few lbs of pressure to push my cooper S through the gears. It takes 2-3 times more pressure to get the car into reverse.
sadbuttrue says:
10:59 PM, 04/25/08
Blue Guy,
Guess I and others who have chimed in here are seriously negligent, eh?
Note what I said in conclusion -- "if you're an attentive driver, it might never happen." But, "what bugs me is just the fact that there's a chance. The reverse lockout feature completely takes these gaffes out of play. That's why I prefer my six-speed shifters so equipped."
At any rate, it's good to hear that you're an "attentive driver" by my definition. The world needs more lerts.
Josh
SubyTrojan says:
12:56 AM, 04/26/08
This is a momentous occasion as "FTW" (for the win) has officially made it into the LT Road Test blog. :wipes tear: j/k
As far as I know, most Bimmers uses some sort of spring-loaded mechanism to keep knuckleheads like me from trying to put the tranny into reverse instead of first. I think Jay (Kavanagh) mentioned something about this awhile ago--perhaps in one of the old MINI Cooper S blog entries (I couldn't find it in the MCS or E46 M3 blog). During the few times I've driven a Subaru Impreza WRX STI, I was *very* impressed with the lockout ring on its six-speed manual shift lever.
bobfranks says:
08:49 AM, 04/26/08
I like the "resistance" feature on my BMW, it beats having a to pull up on a ring to engage reverse.
I have NO clue how you could accidently put the car into reverse(unless you are running from the cops).
You would really have to slam it over, and then slam it up to get it into reverse.
Just have to learn the feel of the shifter and deal with it.
jriz says:
10:31 AM, 04/26/08
I'm one of those staffers who disagrees with Josh on this one. I love how quick and easy it is to go from 1st to Reverse during parking situations in a BMW, Mini or Porsche. Especially in the latter, there's usually a significant amount of effort needed to get it into reverse. Certainly more so than a normal 3rd to 2nd shift. I did go into no man's land in my 10-year-old Z3 the first time I drove it, but I have never done it on such a car since then.
I like this set-up, especially more than the Japanese-style reverse gate next to sixth. I'm always concerned I'll accidently go into reverse rather than sixth. That would be worse than accidently going into 1st. But there's a reason different companies do it different ways -- people think there's more than one solution to a problem.
-Riswick
sadbuttrue says:
11:36 AM, 04/26/08
I agree with Riswick on Porsche's high-effort resistance, based on the new 911 I drove yesterday. You'd have to be the governor of California to power through that resistance accidentally. Though my concern about deterioration over time (as has perhaps happened with our long-term M3) still applies.
Josh
speeder31 says:
04:34 PM, 04/26/08
Sheesh--pretty picky, if I do say so myself...have some faith! My '87 Bimmer 325 'vert still has plenty of resistance to let me know not to go over to the big R...and nothing's been reconditioned in that department...21 years and still going strong.
opfreak says:
07:42 PM, 04/26/08
myth busters showed that while moving they werent able to get a manual car into reverse. the straight cut gears and no syncro's make it nearly impossilbe
jriz says:
09:48 AM, 04/27/08
Yes, and note the ear-piercing gear grinding Tori experienced while trying to do it in that CRX. That would suck.
dougtheeng says:
07:19 AM, 04/28/08
I don't mind the setup in my Mini. The resistance is enough that I don't think I would go into reverse accidentally unless I was really not paying attention. I hope the resistance does not diminish with use.
johnmarco says:
07:23 AM, 04/28/08
I learned on a Volvo with the ring you pull up on, and I liked that feature. The possibility that without a lockout I could accidentally shift into R bothers me.
cbmorton says:
09:42 AM, 04/28/08
I also have a Mini, and although I don't really mind the setup either, the resistance could be a bit more substantial. Both my wife and I were victims of "accidental reverse syndrome", as other R56 Mini owners call it, a couple of times the first week we had the car. No problem now, but having come from a previous vehicle where reverse was down and to the right, we needed to learn to use a little less force when going over to the left and up to select first gear.
vvk says:
10:32 AM, 04/28/08
I have never had any problems with any type of reverse gear arrangement. One driving the car all the type gets used to whatever they have to do to avoid going into reverse by accident. I understand it could be problematic in a fleet scenario. Besides, the easier it is to go from first to reverse and back, the easier it is to rock the car out of a slippery spot. Not everyone likes to live in places where the weather is so boring :)
sadbuttrue says:
12:55 PM, 04/28/08
That is true, VVK -- the BMW-style design is optimal when you're repeatedly switching between first and reverse.
Josh
lvranger says:
02:06 PM, 04/28/08
My Tundra's six speed has a ton of resistance to get into reverse but if that ever happens to wear out it also gives you a little beep.
greenpony says:
07:37 AM, 04/29/08
My cousin owns a 6-speed Firebird. One day he hopped in his friend's 5-speed Mustang (moderately modified). Only, he wasn't familiar with the shifter. Shifting as he normally would, he went for 6th gear, only to be met with a horrible grinding noise. R is in a different location in this case, but you see the point. A lockout mechanism could have prevented the problem altogether. Props to VW for including it in the little Jetta.
cyrix2k says:
06:44 PM, 11/ 2/09
Another 6-speed BMW driver here. I have a 1997 540i 6-speed with 154k miles on the clock and it still takes a lot of force to overcome the reverse detent. There is no way you could accidentally engage reverse unless you are being *way* too rough on the tranny. Honestly, you would have to be negligent. There's no lockout mechanism to break and nothing to slow down my shift into reverse, just the way I like it. It makes parking maneuvers a breeze.