2008 Cadillac CTS V6 DI (Introduction)

Good pick of a car for a Long term test. Okay GM haters/defenders get your fingers ready. I'll start: The rear door is disproportioned and looks funny.

so you got almost 10% off without even trying.
 
I heard that alot of bmw/mini dealers are asking 1000-2500k OVER msrp for a mini clubman. With a few going for msrp. But then again it is BMW, you walk through a small door when you enter the dealer so you bow down to them.
 
I sat in the cts again this weekend. its so nice inside. Stupid stundent loans I have to pay for.

I wouldn't say "without even trying". They got it from the 2nd dealer they tried, not the 1st:
 
http://66.160.188.111/strategies/.eea2cc2

I agree with you benson2175 that the rear door looks disproportionately short. I remember thinking that when I saw the first spy photos. I actually don't care for the overall styling at all anyway.
 
My bigger gripe is that no 6-speed manual is offered with the DI engine, and since the non-DI is too pokey for me, I couldn't buy this car.
 
On the bright side, the interior looks to be very high quality and the infotainment system is pretty innovative. I look forward to reading about it.

Ahh missed that blog, the intro made it seem simpler.
 
still 2 phone calls. I wouldnt call that 'hard' or even 'work'

I can't stand the grilles on the fenders! They look tacky and out of place.
 
"Mad props" to Senior Consumer Advice Editor Phil for working his magic and getting a great deal! The mere mention of his name strikes fear into the hearts of automobile salespeople throughout Southern California. j/k

You can get the DI engine with the 6 speed manual--In fact, it lowers the MSRP by more than $1300.

The price on the CTS was pretty impressive, considering the Lexus IS and BMW 335i both touch around $50K.
 
Looking forward to reading about it and also hoping that an orange Pontiac G8 GT will also arrive in the long term fleet.

"considering the Lexus IS and BMW 335i both touch around $50K."
 
A super ubber loaded CTS does cross the $50k line. On the other hand, according to Lexus.com, an IS350 tops out at $46,864 with $10k worth of options.
 
A 335i tops out at around $52k I believe.

I priced a CTS on the website with $13K worth of options and I got $48,835. Still if you go easy on the options I think the CTS is a good bargain.

I've always liked the CTS but the question now is...would I buy one over a G8?

Interesting, Cadillac is no longer offering AWD with the 3.6DI, back when AWD was an available option the MSRP was around $51k.
 
Firstwagon, that was definitely a good question and I guess that's one of the reasons why the 3.6DI doesn't come with the G8.

Please push on the gauges (speedometer, etc). Does your car's squeak like mad, as all the autoshow cars have?
 
The endless squeakathon plastic interior made me very ambivalent about this car.
Look, but don't touch.

good question firstwagon. from the quick sit in both at naias, and later again in the cts at the local show.
 
the cts inside, is a big step above the g8.
 
and thats not to take away from the g8, the g8 was clean/simple, very well done. the cts, just has that touch more of class.
 
still the 6.0 of the g8 would be very appealing, i bet that people will find easy ways to port other gm parts to the g8... possibly from both the corvette, and the upcomming camaro.. who knows how much power you can get out of the car

louiswei
 
Maybe I should have made the question ...is the 3.6DI better then the 6.0 V8?
 
GM's V8's are wonderful engines that can get surprisingly good mileage. Is there really an advantage to having an extremely complex V6 over a pushrod V8?
 
I see a roadtest comparison opportunity here.

Is "surprisingly good mileage" the same as "equal or better mileage than the 3.6DI"? If not, then I think the "extremely complex V6" has a case here.
 
By the way, I am not voicing to have the 3.6DI in the place of the 6.0 V8 but I would like to see it as the base engine instead of the non-DI 3.6.

What a good deal; $42,272 including tax.
That's well under invoice price.
Is it because of bad US economy, American automotive company struggle, or competitive L.A. car sales market? Anyway, hope CTS shows good reliability in this test before I purchase it over Lexus.

They're already giving $3k off? GM needs to knock that off if they want their resale values to stay strong. That said, I can't wait to see how the CTS works out.

I agree with Benson that the rear doors aren't proportioned quite right, but respectfully disagree with Suby. This is one of the very few cars I like the fender vents on.
 
I'm looking forward to the entries on this, especially to see how it compares to the Mercedes. I'm even more looking forward to the G8, because I actually can afford that within a few years.

I'd take the CTS and its "disproportioned, short doors" over the c-"class" and its goofy looking short, disproportioned rear end.

Just to keep the conversation within the cars that are in the long term fleet, I'd take the G35 over both CTS and C300.

You're missing out by not getting FE3. Aside from the stiffer suspension, you're really missing out on the larger brakes and PS2 tires. They have so much grip - almost too much - that the DI engine can't always break them loose. I've had my car since 09/2007 and so far my only complaints are:
  
- Not enough padding on the door armrests. Typically when I drive, I rest my left knee on the door since my car is auto. Over time the hard plastic under the armrest starts to become uncomfortable and will even mark the leather and padding from the inside.
  
- Some wind noise at hwy speeds from the sunroof. I think it comes from the black panel that covers the gap between the 2 glass panes. This is mostly noticeable at very high speeds or when its windy.
  
- No Bluetooth for 2008 cars. What a shame.
- No backup camera.
  
- No open storage in the center console other than the cup holders. I need a place to put my cell phone with easy access. There is enough room to design something in there.
  
- Steering wheel is a bit large.
  
I traded a G35 Coupe 6MT for this car. I considered a 335i Coupe, a '08 G37 and test drove an '08 G35 sedan. They're excellent cars performance-wise but they dont hold a candle to the Caddy's design inside and out.

Somehow I think the Caddy's gonna ride home with the award between the manual-transmission G35 and the unloved C300. The Goldilocks effect, if you will.

I'm glad someone cleared up the lies regarding no manula with the DI engine. C&D tested a manual DI car in their comparo a few months ago so I don't know why anyone would think that. The CTS is no more expensive than the C350 or 335i in spite of being bigger and having a superior interior.
 
The G8 GT gets 15/24 as opposed 17/26 for the CTS DI so the difference is pretty small. Considering the V8 has far more torque and the G8 is almost a second faster to 60mpg I would say a 2mpg sacrifice would be considered logical by some.
 
I wish IL didnt get that red color, its not one of my favorites. The car looks sharp in the dark colors. I cant wait to see what complaints they come up with on this car.
 
"Just to keep the conversation within the cars that are in the long term fleet, I'd take the G35 over both CTS and C300."
 
You say that as if we should be surprised. We know what you drive. We know you dont like American cars. Why would we think you would chose the CTS over anything? Would you chose the CTS over a base model Accord? Probably not. The CTS looks better than the IS and C class in every way and matches them in every performance category except acceleration while offering more space and a more unique design.

"We also went for the Premium Luxury package which includes 10-way adjustable and programmable heated/cooled front seats, rain-sensing wipers, heated washer fluid, interior accent lighting, 17-inch cast-aluminum wheels and keyless access."
 
doesnt this car have 18" wheels? 17s are standard but you got the optional package with FE2 suspension and 18" rims I believe.
 
The CTS and G8 are similar in that they are RWD performance cars from GM. The similarities end there. The G8 is larger, cheaper and faster and has FAR fewer options than the CTS. If you want bang for your buck the G8 is the easy choice but if you want a better interior and high tech features you will have to pony up for the CTS. It would stupid of GM to offer the Di V6 as the base engine on a $27k Pontiac when the CTS doesnt even have it standard. They wouldnt make the G8 so competitive that no one would buy the CTS. This is likely one reason the G8 doesnt have navigation and HID lights. Both cars will get Bluetooth for 2009 however.

Oh yeah of course I would choose a CTS over a base Accord. You are funny...
 
By the way, looks are very subjective so IMO although CTS is not bad of a looker but it has nothing on the IS, C and G. It does look better than the 3er inside and out though.
 
One major beef I have against the CTS is: No keyless ignition (bush button)?

Good grief that car's expensive. 42k for a Caddy with a discount of 4k? Yikes.

So everyone slammed IL for getting a loaded X5, but no one seems to care that they slapped over ten grand in options on this car? Interesting.

Sabastian, it seems weird to me. 8k option packages = offensive in the extreme. I like ala carte ordering. Guess that's passe. Or package ordering is symptomatic of the "biggie-size-it" mentality so many Americans seem to embrace.

The styling of new CTS reminds of aging prostitute trying too hard with make up.

"So everyone slammed IL for getting a loaded X5, but no one seems to care that they slapped over ten grand in options on this car? Interesting."
 
I don't find it interesting at all. If you tend to keep everything in context the way some of us here do, you'll realize that the loaded X5 is not consistent with the other SUVs of the fleet. What's interesting is that the two overpriced German SUVs got plenty of kit and fully stocked prices while the other 3 more mainstream utes got slighted with options thereby lowering their appeal.
 
Granted the C300 isn't loaded but the G35 is. On top of that, the updated X5 is not nearly as significant as the CTS which is why many did not see the point of the addition. Also I believe the previous long term 330i was around $42k without nav/iDrive or an automatic and was a much smaller car.

"I like ala carte ordering."
 
Something that drew you to the Mini? I agree, though. An eight-thousand dollar package is like going to a restaurant and ordering everything on the menu. Realistically, however, it's pretty tough to get any premium brand car off a dealer lot that isn't loaded to gills with options.

Sabastian,
 
Ordering is usually an option. Well, unless it's a Lexus and then it's not. But for most luxury makes you can special order a car. ;)
 
And yeah my last BMW and my Mini both came with limited features that I wanted. Heck, I tracked the entire build of my BMW online for months.

"You are funny... "
 
Thanks.
 
"One major beef I have against the CTS is: No keyless ignition (bush button)?"
 
I am noticing you have a tendency to post about omissions without doing any research. The CTS does have keyless go optional. Its not pushbutton, but its still keyless. Its the same setup as the RL. Money can buy you a luxury car, but not taste of course. The IS is a generic Japanese design which isnt to say its ugly but its unoriginal and wholly forgettable. The G35 has some good angles but the roof is too high and the car is too narrow to really seem aggressive. Futhermore, the interior of the G35 is on a lower rung than the CTS. Its not even close in terms of design or materials. The C class is as good on the materials but is far behind on design inside and out. The C class is another mild refreshing of the same old MB look and the car needs more length to have any real presence on the road. The front and rear of the car appear to be clipped off and it hurts the styling.
 
"Or package ordering is symptomatic of the "biggie-size-it" mentality so many Americans seem to embrace."
 
Check out the options on the car before making such statements. You dont have to get the packages to get options. The CTS has a lot of build combinations and you dont have to spend $8k just to get one or two options you want in most cases. Also, other brands have similar option packages. I believe Lexus and Infiniti do this on many models.
 
"Good grief that car's expensive. 42k for a Caddy with a discount of 4k? Yikes."
 
But if it was a GErman car it wouldn't be expensive? YOu say that as if its unheard of for a Cadillac to be over $40k. Most Cadillac's sold are over that figure. The Escalade starts at $56K+ and has no problems finding buyers. New CTS is more expensive than old one and sales are way up so far. Guess some people dont find it overpriced.

Hi all,
 
So many things to comment on:
 
1487 and others - The DI engine comes with a 6-speed manual, or offers one? That's news to me and I would say news to Caddilac's website. I've looked over this car everywhere and only seen it with 6-speed auto. I've built it on Caddy's website twice (in the last few months) and have never seen the DI offered with a 6-speed manual. In fact, Cadillac lists the 6-speed automatic as a standard "feature" on the DI engine'd version...
 
Can you point me somewhere different (besides a C&D article which may have meant paddle-shifter 6-speed auto)?
 
Re: $8000 in options...
 
Ridiculous. Reading over the list of what you got for it, it looked more like $3000-4000 in options. Am I missing something there?
 
I can't believe this incredibly hot car, which has just come out, is getting such heavy discounts. Over 10% of MSRP? Holy cow. My only guess is maybe Caddy is launching the 2009 model in May???
 
BTW....1487....I would expect new sales to be up, but why is this car getting discounted so much?
 
On another note...
 
Why is this car a "competitor to the 3-series, IS, and even C-Class"? It's markedly larger and less agile (don't fight me with stats, it's a bigger less agile car that can be equipped with an FE3 suspension and incredibly sticky tires to do wondrous things, but it's still less agile).
 
What it is is a 5-series fighter, a GS fighter, and a M-series fighter. While at a one-class lower price-range and slightly smaller than those, slightly larger than the class below it...
 
I think it's a great niche car. A more mature, family-oriented person who wants a sports sedan would be turned off by the 3-series and IS back seat, but would find the Caddy very nicely sized.
 
Bravo to Caddy. And I hope I can hear it become, again, "The Cadillac of Cadillacs".
 
Joe
 
P.s. I will be even more excited if someone can prove me wrong and provide proof of a 6-speed DI engine'd CTS

Why should the "key-less go" be an option instead of standard equipment? I am not just knocking on the CTS with this since neither the 3er and C has them as standard. However, given that it is the last to join the party why doesn't it have it given that the G had it for over a year and the IS had it for almost 2 years.
 
Yeah, maybe the IS and G isn't as "flashy" as the CTS in terms of looks but you do understand that some people really don't prefer the "in your face" styling right?

"Ordering is usually an option."
 
That's true. I wonder what percentage of premium brand buyers go that route. For Mini it's probably close to 100%, and for others I'm sure its a much higher percentage than for non-premium brands. Most folks I know (though admittedly it's not a representative sample) typically end up saving a few bucks to get a car off the lot that a dealer is eager to get rid of.

FOR THE LAST TIME: You CAN get the 6 speed manual/DI combo in the 2008 CTS. You have to order one of the performance packages(either all-season or summer tires)for $2980. IF you order this, then the 6-speed manual is available. The MSRP is then lowered by $1300.

CTS on the Caddy website shows the 6 speed manual as an option. Once you get to the options page you can check off the 6 speed manual for a $1300 savings.
 
1487 is right about limited the features too. I'm not replacing my Cooper until I need to bu when it comes time I'll stop by Caddy to try out the CTS. We get special pricing through GM so it will be worth a look.

ha. The CTS web site build tool obviously has kinks.
Wait another month or 2 before it gets fixed.
 
Is it logical at all to expect, with no description whatsoever, that you must check off one specific option, before the magical manual transmission will become available for selection?
 
You must check off "PERFORMANCE PACKAGE - 18" SUMMER TIRE" for the manual transmission selection to appear. Like some secret cheat code.
 
Crazy web site.

On the Canadian Cadillac website, you can chose the Manual, when Building your own..
  
http://gm.ca/gm/english/showrooms/steps?tostep=2008_cadi_cts

Cts24 - I've seen several claims that it could be had with a 6-speed manual, but that was the first time someone explained to me that it only appeared if you selected the summer tire performance package.
 
That's a pretty obtuse display, as I've built several caddy's on there and one of my defining needed characteristics was the DI engine with a 6-speed manual. And I would want all-season tires.
 
I hope Caddy gets that worked out pronto.
Just gray it out as an option with a little sub-bullet indicating required selection.

mercedesman1, you're kinda stepping on some toes here. That username is awfully close to mine! jk ;)
 
Anyway, I am excited about this newest addition. Although I am not personally fond of the looks I hope the CTS turns out to be a great car. It would be wonderful for the US auto industry if Cadillac could return to its glory days.

"1487 and others - The DI engine comes with a 6-speed manual, or offers one? That's news to me and I would say news to Caddilac's website. I've looked over this car everywhere and only seen it with 6-speed auto. I've built it on Caddy's website twice (in the last few months) and have never seen the DI offered with a 6-speed manual. In fact, Cadillac lists the 6-speed automatic as a standard "feature" on the DI engine'd version... "
 
as many have noted it is available and this has been noted in every review of the car, plus several tests have been done with the manual equipped car. The website has some flaws apparently. Check GMbuypower.com and see if that has the information correct. There is also a GM dealer info website that gives you details on every GM models equipment. I dont have the link handy though. Bottom line is that is has been made clear in several places that the manual is available with the high powered engine. Since the CTS has come out a manual transmission has been standard regardless of engine choice.
 
loius,
 
I know a lot of people are fans of bland styling hence the success of most Japanese cars. That's fine and its more of a reason for me to be driving a CTS. I dont want a luxury car designed or purchased by people who think the Camry or Avalon is attractive. Since when does "attractive" or "bold" have to be relegated to "in your face" anyway? It sounds like you are sayiing any car that doesn't look forgettable is being too brash. As if those with good taste are too sophisticated to be driving a car like the CTS.
 
"BTW....1487....I would expect new sales to be up, but why is this car getting discounted so much? "
 
yes we should expect sales to be up, but the car has outsold most of its competition in recent months. While the TL is dated the G35 is less than two years old. It also outsold the ES350 in the last couple of months if I'm not mistaken. I believe the 3 series may be the only car in this price range that is outselling the CTS which isnt surprising considering the number of variants and engines.
 
Joefrompa,
 
If you are questioning Caddy's option prices you obviously haven't been checking out prices at the competition. Caddy charges no more for options than Lexus or BMW or MB.

1487-
 
I believe it should be outselling the TL (the TL is now majorly outdated)...surprised by the G35, simply because it's such a value buy. That being said, I don't understand the affection for the G35's looks....the front end was smacked with the bulbous stick.
 
But my original question is: why is the caddy getting discounted? Any other recent buyers out there who can comment and confirm discounts? Kinda odd for such a new hot car.
 
Btw - I'm questioning Caddy's pricing of the luxury pack. It's very similar to the Lexus, true, but that doesn't make it a good thing.
 
To compare it to the BMW the Caddy's $8165 premium luxury collection includes:
 
1. Theft-deterrent alarm system (Not 100% on what that includes as the website doesn't say, but I believe an identical system is standard on the 335)
 
2. Audio system (again, I couldn't find info on this until I clicked various options off and then it appeared...really poor website design). This system is $3,145.00 standalone or built into the $8145 option....it appears to be a class-leading multimedia center, but why is it so expensive (Infiniti's nearly identical system is about $1000 less and includes a rear-view camera/monitor).
 
3. Rain-sensing wipers (standard on 335)
 
4. Accent lighting (standard on 335)
 
5. 17x8 machined-faced wheels....Since this isn't anything out of the norm, I'll just say standard across all the competitors.
 
6. Seat Package - BMW premium package adds 4-way power lumbar as opposed to Caddy's 2-way. I like that this adds heated seats in this package, but can I get heated seats without buying a $3000 package?
 
7. Sunroof - Standard on 335....maybe the "ultraview sunroof" on the CTS is superior?
 
8. Wood Trim Package - Again, standard on the 335
 
I think the package adds some very nice touches, but I think that this package is about $2500 more expensive than it should be. And even then, it'd only be more "in-line" with industry costs, still a huge money maker for the mfr.
 
I guess I'm really not a big fan of big packages. I like Acura's approach with the TSX and TL (automatic or manual, navi or not, that's it). Cars like the 335, IS350, C350, and CTS w/ DI engine should be equipped to the gills in my opinion.
 
Joe
 
P.s. Thank you for those who pointed out the CTS DI offers a 6-speed manual. I have read such reviews but my build on the website had led me to believe otherwise.

Who cares about the manual anyway, the automatic is better. The stick is not as good as a BMWs so it's essentially pointless. Even C&D said they preferred the automatic so that should tell you all you need to know. Afterall, they hate automatics.

Hey Chavis -
 
It's weird, I'm noticing more and more car journos who "enjoy" or "prefer" the automatic.
 
I think this is because autos are getting better, car makers aren't putting as much effort in a good manual trans design, and the car journos are getting lazy. Just my opinion :)
 
By the way, I care about a manual transmission because it's a pre-requisite for me to consider a car. The C350 and Pontiac G8 are currently not on my list to consider because of their lack of manual trans availability. The CTS has just returned :)
 
And yes, I cross-shop those cars (Price wise, I go as low as the 22k range and up to the 42k range).
 
Joe
 
P.s. Subytrojan - If you read this, I have placed the order :)

joefrompa -
 
You point out that many of the optional features on the CTS are standard on a BMW 335. But you neglected to mention the price of a lightly optioned BMW 335i is about the same as this fully optioned CTS (with discount). A fully optioned BMW 335i would be close to $50k, and still wouldn't have some features available to the CTS. BMW is the king of overpriced options and option packages. You should know that by now.
 
BTW, the ultraview sunroof on the CTS is definitely superior - its twice the size of a regular sunroof and extends all the way back to the rear seats - look at the photos.

Joe
 
Look at the starting price of the 335 $35,045 compared to a CTS $38,900. Add the Perf Collection for $3300- leather, htd seats, adaptive HIDs, memory sts, 18" rims, etc and you're still under the 335's base price . If you like the BMW, buy it. Other people will value the CTS' space and uniqueness, if you will, over the universal 3 series. Also:
 
#2- CTS has a standard 8 speaker Bose system. The upgrade adds too additional speakers and Dobly Digital/DTS discrete 5.1 archetecture. The G35 has regular stereo circuitry with Bose speakers and Burr Brown Amps. They are completely different systems. CTS also has a pop up screen and live recording feature the G35 lacks. No one car has every single feature available on the next. 335 has 4 way lumber, CTS has heated windshield fluid. You can go on and one about what has this and what has that to no avail.
 
Perhaps this site would be helpful to you: http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/vehiclesel.jsp?year=2008&regionID=1&divisionID=5
Click Print book select CTS from drop down box -> select Print Book button -> click blue Print button. This information is accurate unlike the Caddy website.
 
7- Sunroof is much larger and includes glass over the rear cabin
 
This the luxury game and this is how it is played. No BMW or Cadillac is a good value and all are rip offs. If you want value and features consider the G35 and TL to a lesser extent.

Joe,
Theft-deterrent alarm system (Not 100% on what that includes as the website doesn't say, but I believe an identical system is standard on the 335)
 
No alarm on a BMW. Why would anyone want one? Utterly worthless noise pollution.
  
Cars like the 335, IS350, C350, and CTS w/ DI engine should be equipped to the gills in my opinion.
 
Couldn't disagree more. I don't want or need most of the things that come standard on the 3. Take away the auto wipers, auto lights, power seats, self-drying brakes, sunroof, wood (thankfully aluminum is an option), dual HVAC. Personally, all I want on my 3 is a manual, power windows, xenons, straight AC and sport package.

"Since when does "attractive" or "bold" have to be relegated to "in your face" anyway?"
 
And since when does "handsome", "attractive", or "understated elegence" have to be related to "boring" and "forgetable"? I don't find Avalon and Camry's styles to be attractive but somehow I do with the IS and G.
 
Maybe the CTS is "attractive" and "bold" to you but in my eyes the whole car screams "in you face", especially from the front and front 1/4 view.
 
To each of his own...
 
By the way, I am still fascinated by the $3k discount ($4.5k including that weird incentive...) on such a "hot" car like the CTS.

"No alarm on a BMW. Why would anyone want one? Utterly worthless noise pollution. "
 
its a content alarm, its only activated when you break the window or force the door open. No noise pollution. But I'm sure you believe any feature not on a BMW is pointless.
 
As for the discount, that issue should be taken up with the dealer. Maybe they dont sell well in California which wouldnt be surprising since that state is known for not liking American cars. We have no proof that EVERY or MOST CTS' are being discounted to that degree.
 
The CTS is outselling the G35 sedan and has been for several months. This ought to prove that open minded people do not find the car to be overpriced. It's apparent that Infiniti has to stick to value pricing to a larger degree than Cadillac right now. You dont have to like it, but that is the way it is right now.
 
"Maybe the CTS is "attractive" and "bold" to you but in my eyes the whole car screams "in you face", especially from the front and front 1/4 view. "
 
enjoy Toyota styling, it obviously works for millions of people in this country. I'll take a pass. I actually want a $40k car to stand out to some degree but apparently many do not. Lexus has been rehashing the same old design themes since its inception. The IS is OK looking but it doesnt stand out which is the case for every Lexus model. The rear deck on the IS is too short for me, the proportions seem much better on the 3 series.
 
"($4.5k including that weird incentive...) "
 
there is nothing "wierd" about the incentive. GM offers conquest rebates on some cars if you trade in or currently own a non GM product. Makes sense to me. I wouldnt pay sticker for the CTS or any other luxury car. If a car has an MSRP of $46k I want a few thousand off that right away.
 
joe,
 
you gave a partial listing of features in the CTS' package. If you are going to call it overpriced at least list ALL the features. I dont think you noted the 40GB HD, cooled seats and a few other things. Also, the sound system upgrade includes navigation so its not like you are just paying for the BOSE system. Even if the G35's system is cheaper it doesnt have a 40GB drive or the ability to record live radio or a pop up screen.

Off-topic:
I saw your message, Joe. I expect a full report and photos of the LGT. :o)
 
I read C&D's full test of the Pontiac G8 over the weekend. I was surprised to read it doesn't have folding rear seats.

eek...no folding rear seats? Darnit, that's become a requirement for me....now it's down 2 points: Manual and no fold down rear....
 
Suby - I've been told my wait is going to be around 6 weeks. At the 4 week mark, we'll re-appraise our trade-in. If the value stays the same or barely moves, we're good...if not....Plan B.
 
Otherwise, you'll see a link to a large gallery of fun and described photos of the event :)
 
1487 - I skipped a few options (I did forget about the cooled seats, which I view is worth a good penny and a very nice option in this class). I didn't count things like "it has a pop-up screen" as a feature, because, lets face it, it's subjective.
 
Blueguy - I understand your comment, but these are no longer the days of the club racer model. I feel that models such as the 335 should be standard with power lumbar and fold-down rear seats, instead of part of a larger option. To get what you want (i'm guessing you want no sunroof and about 50 pounds less sound deadening) would need to be a special model nowadays. Sadly.
 
I mainly say I want more standard because I'm tired of the rip-off option pricing.
 
Btw, 1487 - A $1500 rebate on conquests isn't considered weird? That's a pretty hefty rebate simply for people who are suddenly considering the very nice CTS. Maybe it makes sense, I just don't see it.
 
Also, I believe the BMW and most other modern cars have that "content" alarm as standard nowadays. My $20k Honda Civic does. Hence why i thought it was standard, unless there was something special I didn't know about...

Joe,
 
I ordered my last 3 series and if I go back to BMW (1 or 3), it'll probably have to be an order as I don't want leather, the premium package or an automatic - not so easy to find on a lot. Plus, I want to do european delivery again as it was so much fun last time.
 
1487,
 
its a content alarm, its only activated when you break the window or force the door open.< No noise pollution.
 
It makes no noise when the door is forced open? Well that's alarmingly refreshing. A "content" alarm is worthless too as it serves no purpose. Actually, if you search around you can find some reports about how alarms had a negligible impact on break-ins and car thefts. Some experts believe the continued break-ins of cars with alarms might be attributed to owners LEAVING valuables in plain sight as they foolishly believe the alarm and the liquid you look through will somehow protect the contents from a basic smash and grab. Regardless, BMW's 3 and 1 do not come with alarms.
 
But I'm sure you believe any feature not on a BMW is pointless.
 
I named a plethora of features on the current BMW cars that I find without merit - self-drying brakes, hill-hold clutches, dual-hvac, sunroofs, lined trunks, sound deadening, power seats, auto lights/wipers. I could gladly remove a bunch of options from a BMW. ;)

The G8 does have fold down seats as far as I know.

C/D Pontiac G8 Road Test (HTML used due to link length)
 
"Western sizing extends to the thick bolsters on the front buckets, spread wide enough to welcome athletically trained (or McDonald’s fed) torsos. The seats give solid support and proved comfortable over the long miles. The rear seatback reclines at a restful 28 degrees with well-shaped body pockets. Camry drivers would find little to criticize except the lack of folding rear seats. GM says it’s about structural stiffness. A double-wide tunnel is the concession."