2008 Cadillac CTS: Perfect Old Man Car

Yah thats a good commercial.

Yes yes it returns the favor and all, but how many cupholders does it have?

I have to agree, I just can't see a 20-something (like me) driving this car.

A flame suit might come in handy soon, Caroline. :(

This comment was prompted by the picture and has nothing to do with Caroline's nice blog post (sorry!). I don't like three-spoke steering wheels like this one. For a casual cruise, my hand is in one of three positions: at five o'clock with the thumb and forefinger wrapped around a spoke, at six o'clock with four fingers curled around the wheel, or at seven o'clock - same as five o'clock. Although it seems to make no difference on short trips or twisty roads, on long drives three-spoke wheels like this are a constant irritant for me.

"For a casual cruise, my hand is in one of three positions: at five o'clock with the thumb and forefinger wrapped around a spoke, at six o'clock with four fingers curled around the wheel, or at seven o'clock - same as five o'clock."
 
Dear new drivers, do not drive like this. Bad bad bad.

wow thats cold.

"Ever since then, every time I think "Cadillac four-door," I can't help but think "old man." I'm sorry, but that's just what I associate it with. So when I was given the keys to our new 2008 Cadillac CTS, I naturally thought, "OK, I'll be an old man for the weekend.""
 
Well its pretty obvious that someone is a little out of touch with Cadillac's current image and products. Then again, someone who thinks like that probably cant tell the difference between a DTS and CTS so I shouldnt be surprised.
 
Are there any staffers at Edmunds/IL who have up to date knowledge and opinions of anything not made by Honda or BMW?
 
"
I have to agree, I just can't see a 20-something (like me) driving this car."
 
I'm in my 20s and I would drive it. My wife is even younger and she likes the car. Same with my brother. Just because you wouldn't drive it doesnt mean no one under 50 would consider this car. The only thing I dont like about it is its price tag. I couldnt see anyone in their 20s driving an Avalon or ES350 though.

Suby- flame suit is not needed, relax.
 
I'm actually glad people have ridiculous preconceived notions about various automobiles. That way, you won't see 10 of them on the block like you do with more popular vehicles. I actually wanted a slightly used Seville STS instead of my first '05 Mazda3 but the insurance would've been too expensive (compared to the Mazda). People who have to have the "it" car often miss out other good choices. Then again, the world would be perfect if we could only buy Accords and 3 series Bimmers.
 
greenpony- I agree with you but it seems like more and more vehicles are getting 3 spokers.
 
Too bad that got the ebony interior as the cocoa/cashmere is much more inviting.

I think that Cadillac's current image is still geared towards old men, and one ride in a DTS, STS, or SRX can confirm this (count out the new CTS and Escalade). I'd never call the new CTS an old man's car, though. It's more of an all-rounder.

side note -- is it just me, or does the wheel seem huge??

"Well its pretty obvious that someone is a little out of touch with Cadillac's current image and products. Then again, someone who thinks like that probably cant tell the difference between a DTS and CTS so I shouldnt be surprised. "
 
I don't think that she is out of touch at all, I think its a common perception with Cadillac. Even though I love the CTS, it most certainly does not protray a youthful image - No Cadillac products do. I can't be the only one who thinks like this....

Crudeness aside, I think I actually have to agree with the spirit of 1487's 20-something comments. I'd say the CTS is the ONE Cadillac (sedan) that might attract people in that age group. Between its comparatively smaller size and sporty driving dynamics, the CTS is likely the youngest thing ever to come from Cadillac.

"I don't think that she is out of touch at all, I think its a common perception with Cadillac. Even though I love the CTS, it most certainly does not protray a youthful image - No Cadillac products do. I can't be the only one who thinks like this."
 
I agree as when I think of Cadillac I dont picture people in their 20's driving DTS' or CTS' and there is nothing wrong with that. Its certainly not a bad thing but Cadillac is a more........"mature" brand.
 
Im 30 and actually love the styling of the CTS but its still a bit "old" for me. Id like something more youthful and energetic. For me it would be a BMW 135i/335i Sport as these 2 cars emit a more youthful image.
 
Doesnt Cadillac have a smaller RWD car in the works to DIRECTLY compete with the 3 Series?

Caroline -
 
Loved your comments, and the photo. I feel the wood rim really enforces the "older" imagery, but superimposed on the newer and younger design.
 
1487 - As always, your hyperbole is superfluous :)
 
"Well its pretty obvious that someone is a little out of touch with Cadillac's current image and products."
 
Maybe you are a little out of touch with Cadillac's ACTUAL demographics? Average age of buyer? H'loo? Or perhaps you are out of touch with how they've done the last 20 years and who has bought their products?
 
Sure, their IMAGE for the CTS is younger. They need to capture the younger generation, to ensure future sales. The CTS is designed to capture the 30-somethings, STS 40-50, and DTS really for the AARP crowd (and, of course, limo and car services).
 
And considering Cadillac has only had the CTS out for a few years now, isn't a little disingenuous to say Cadillac is a "young person's brand" all the sudden?
 
Oh wait, that wouldn't bother you. Nevermind.
 
By the way, I'm in my mid 20's and would love to drive the CTS too. I'd enjoy owning it (most likely). But there's a huge difference between wanting to drive something, enjoying potential ownership, and ACTUALLY buying it. That's the difference between image and reality, in case you hadn't figured it out yet.
 
I don't usually load up my posts with personal attacks like this, but your personal attacks against anyone and everyone who posts the slightest thing not in your world-view alignment is tiring. This was a complimentary post on the CTS, and your bile still infests it.
 
By the way: I put my money where was my keyboard is and bought a Subaru Legacy GT 5-speed this weekend. It's image fits my reality. And I traded in a GM product to obtain it. Have you seen the conquest numbers on the new Malibu? Not yet positive for GM getting converts. Under 1% of buyers traded in an Accord, less than 2% camry's and altimas....
 
Joe
 
P.s. For SubyTrojan and those who may be interested, here's a photo montage/slideshow of the Ion to LGT transition:
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25182881@N04/sets/72157604332865393

CTS- Love to drive it, wouldn't own it.
 
CTS Coupe - Want to own it based on looks alone.
 
On a side note: Airbag + "For a casual cruise, my hand is in one of three positions: at five o'clock with the thumb and forefinger wrapped around a spoke, at six o'clock with four fingers curled around the wheel, or at seven o'clock - same as five o'clock." = Broken wrist. At best. That's not even taking into account the safety hazards of trying to control a vehicle like this...

According to Business Week, the average age for Cadillac buyers (all buyers, not specfic models) was 59. I think that qualifies as "old man car".
 
I'm sure one of the reasons for the older demographic is cost. My 20something son can not afford any new Cadillac, BWM, Infinti, etc.

Hey Joe, you gonna' post a link to the Subie on TOV? =)
 
Nice car BTW!

If "old man" was the kiss of death check out the Toyota owners and their median age, no spring chickens there.... Last time I checked it was up there with the Buick/Cadillac/Mercury crowd. I mean older folks want something that works everytime, easy to use and SAFE.

This whole "image" thing is something that bothers me about my current car. I'm in my twenties as well but I don't strive to have that "cool" car everyone's salivating over. I want something mature and upscale even if it's slightly pre-owned. Having a Mazda3 is like having a Scion and to me, that's a bad thing. Love the car for the most part but people assume you're trying to be trendy or following the latest trend. It's like a person who's used Windows are their life and then switched over to Apple since that's what young folks in the know are doing. If all goes according to plan, I'll have my CTS before I hit my 30th. If I needed the space, it'd be an STS V6 but squeezing that thing into space behind my house might prove to be difficult.
 
Joe- not everyone is as image conscious as you appear to be. Some people will simply buy the vehicle that they like regardless of what other people may think. I am one of those people although income is obviously a factor. However, I'd like to see stats for pre-owned vehicles because off lease luxury cars are often attainable to the average working joe. Get an extended warranty and you're set.
 
My brother often teases me saying my next car should be a Mini, GTI or used 3 series as that supposedly fits my demographic. I don't see my interest staying with those cars after one year of ownership. I don't want something i'll "outgrow," if you will.

It's nice when the vitriol is turned down and the conversation returns to a more civil, thoughtful tone.
 
On that note, you smell boxermike.

i geuss me and my fiance in our 20's are both old, because we both love the car. the 30 grand though we are missing.

What makes Cadillac an "old man car" today? Maybe it's because Caddy was the "it" car back when senior citizens were in their 20's (think Marilyn Monroe in a pink El Dorado drop top).
 
Which makes me wonder, will BMW be the "old man car" in 40years?

7driver:
 
I don't see BMW heading into old man territory any time soon. I think Cadillac and Buick's trip to oldsville was brought on by their failure to adapt to the changing tastes of a younger crowd. Take Mercedes-Benz as an example. They make some cars that would probably appeal to older drivers (E-Class, S-Class), but as long as they keep making cars like the C63 AMG and SLK, they will probably keep selling to younger folks as well. Same goes for BMW. As long as they keep going with their M cars, I don't think they will be ever be seen as an old man's car.

Oh please. I see Cadillacs driven by youthful individuals all the time. They cruise around my house on their 22's and pneumatic suspension listening to their rock'n'roll at high volume. Then I says to myself, "I remember the good ol' days when we whimpersnappers listened to Tupac and Dr. Dré." But then my medication kicks in so I take my afternoon nap.

1487 -- Old people drive Cadillacs and Lincolns. Lincoln doesn't make the Town Car anymore. There's still the DTS, for now. Therefore, Cadillac is still the place where Granddad gets his Barkalounger on wheels.
 
A counterpoint to your comment about not being informed is this: Remember how Honda and Scion built the Element and Xb for the youth of the country? well, it turned out that a lot more mature buyers bought them than the youth culture.
 
Sure a car can be marketed towards a certain demographic but that doesn't mean that only that demographic buys them.
 
The 20-somethings around here buy old Buick LeSabres and Cadillac DeVilles and Chevy Caprices and tricking them out with lift kits and 24 inch rims.

"The 20-somethings around here buy old Buick LeSabres and Cadillac DeVilles and Chevy Caprices and tricking them out with lift kits and 24 inch rims."
 
Where exactly do you live? Compton?

Hey Joe, nice car! Thats a very clean cut vehicle.

"I think that Cadillac's current image is still geared towards old men, and one ride in a DTS, STS, or SRX can confirm this (count out the new CTS and Escalade). I'd never call the new CTS an old man's car, though. It's more of an all-rounder."
 
first of all the SRX and STS handle well and are on the same chassis as the CTS. They are no more old man cars than their counterparts from MB and BMW. What people are not getting is that people in their 20s generally cant afford a cadillac. I know I cannot. My point was that the CTS appeals to people in their 20s through 40s even if the people at the younger end of that spectrum cannot afford the CTS. Naturally the average age of a Cadillac buyer is 59 (if that is correct) when the average Cadillac sells for well over $40k. The average age of Lexus and MB owners is likely in the same price range. I dont consider a 50 year old person "old" in today's world and I see plenty of people in the 40-50 range driving CTS', SRX's and Escalades. DTS and STS owners tend to be a little older however.

"Take Mercedes-Benz as an example. They make some cars that would probably appeal to older drivers (E-Class, S-Class), but as long as they keep making cars like the C63 AMG and SLK, they will probably keep selling to younger folks as well. Same goes for BMW. As long as they keep going with their M cars, I don't think they will be ever be seen as an old man's car."
 
And that is totally different from Cadillac because the CTS, CTS-V, CTS coupe and Escalade are DEFINITELY aimed at the geriatric set. I see your point. Only MB and BMW make luxury vehicles that would appeal to folks that arent collecting Social Security checks. I can imagine there are thousands of 70 year olds waiting to put down a deposit on a CTS-V with manual transmission.

"Maybe you are a little out of touch with Cadillac's ACTUAL demographics? Average age of buyer? H'loo? Or perhaps you are out of touch with how they've done the last 20 years and who has bought their products?
  
Sure, their IMAGE for the CTS is younger. They need to capture the younger generation, to ensure future sales. The CTS is designed to capture the 30-somethings, STS 40-50, and DTS really for the AARP crowd (and, of course, limo and car services).
  
And considering Cadillac has only had the CTS out for a few years now, isn't a little disingenuous to say Cadillac is a "young person's brand" all the sudden?
  
Oh wait, that wouldn't bother you. Nevermind. "
 
Bravo. I do have to applaud your attempt at righteous indignation about my "personal attacks". It was a little over the top but still entertaining.
 
I never said Cadillac was the "young persons's brand" at any time. Cadillac has an edgy design theme that appeals to people in their 20s, 30s and 40s. Most in their 20s cannot afford a cadillac the same way many in their 20s aspire to own a BMW in the future but cannot afford one now. Its the same thing. Part of what luxury brands want to do is get the attention of those who cannot yet afford their wares. The CTS is the type of vehicle (as is Escalade) that people pay attention to long before they can afford the payments. When you look at the luxury car landscape the only brands that clearly seem to be stuck on "old" and happy with it are Lexus and Lincoln. MB is somewhere in between while BMW, Cadillac and Infiniti seem to going after similar customers in terms of age, income and automotive tastes.
 
My original point is that anyone familiar with the CTS' history, handling, styling and ad campaign would not call it an old man's car. Someone who knows little about the CTS or current Cadillacs and based their opinions on tired old stereotypes of 25 ft long Cadillacs that cant turn a corner without tipping over would say something like "the CTS must be an old man's car because its a Cadillac". truthfully, Cadillac has been moving away from the Blvd crusier vehicle since the first STS came out in 1992. With the exception of the Deville/DTS Cadillac really hasnt had a large traditional luxury car in its stable in over a decade.

1487 - Cadillac has come out with some cars in recent years that have pulled their image away from the retired set. I would say that before the first generation CTS, however, there was little in the lineup that would excite the more youthful crowds. Cadillac's average customer age would support that notion.
 
joe - Great looking car! Congratulations!

1487 Post 9: "Well its pretty obvious that someone is a little out of touch with Cadillac's current image and products. Then again, someone who thinks like that probably cant tell the difference between a DTS and CTS so I shouldnt be surprised."
 
1487 Post 32: "I never said Cadillac was the "young persons's brand" at any time."
 
I don't think the two comments are cut and pasted above are contradictory, but your first post was definitely derogatory towards Caroline's feeling that the term "4 door Cadillac" means old's man car. By deriding that sentiment, you implied you felt it was a younger person's brand. Albeit, young being subjective. Maybe to Caroline 59 is old, and to you it's middle aged. Nothing wrong with that.
 
I still think Cadillac builds some of the best older person cars. They are simpler, more intuitive in internal design (on the STS and DTS). Bigger buttons for older fingers on those models.
 
And I personally still like using the phrase "It's the cadillac of toasters."
 
Thank you for complimenting me on my righteous indignation. It was over the top, but still fun to type :)
 
Chavis - Could you clarify where your comment was coming from? I must've missed something...
 
DougTheEng - Thanks! I can't wait to put a nice thick coat of wax on her. The car that is. The wife is tough enough :)

Joe- "By the way: I put my money where was my keyboard is and bought a Subaru Legacy GT 5-speed this weekend. It's image fits my reality."
 
That's where it came from. I guess my image doesn't fit my reality and I'd be happy to own a "Grandpa" cadillac anyday.
 
On another note, I liked that car when it came out but the suspension seemed soft and lacking in roll stiffness. It's still good looking and I see them everyday since there's a Subaru dealer across the street from my job.

1487 I agree. Ever since "Art & Science" theme was introduced, it should've been clear to anyone with eyes and common sense that the focus of the brand was shifting to younger more sophisticated customer base. I don't see how any of those initial concept cars could've been likened to Fleetwood Broughams by any stretch of the imagination. The Evoq (XLR), Cien (V12 mid engined supercar), Vizon (SRX) and Imag were all cutting edge modern takes on this design philosophy and if you're writing for an automotive publication without knowledge of what's been happening with a particular company in the last 10 years, you leave yourself open for criticism. If I were to write a review about a current Accord and say the last thing I remember about Hondas were the rust stricken body panels before they began using galvanized steel, you folks would rip me a new one.
 
I remember having a screen saver with the Cien parked next to Cadillac's LMP racer in the pits and people not believing they were Cadillacs. That was 2002.

Most people will agree Cadillac is trying to aim for a younger crowd now. However it will be a while before it's not thought of a grandpas car.
 
You can't erase decades of cars aimed straight at the grey hair set in just a few years.
 
Maybe our kids will see them as cars for old guys in their forties instead of old guys in their 80's.

Yeah, the image in my head of Lexus is not that dissimilar to Cadillac, even though both brands have reached downwards in age category (Albeit Cadillac is aiming more for an emotional appeal while Lexus is aiming more for the sensible-but-wants-luxury-appeal).
 
I've only ever driven a Lexus SC300 and LS460....the SC300 5-speed was kinda fun, but the LS460 was a complete barge that started a 4-wheel drift when I entered a 60 degree turn at 20mph. So in my head and after reading tons of Lexus reviews, I still am not attracted to it as a brand as I associate it with things that don't attract me personally.
 
Chavis - My comment on the LGT having an image that fits my reality wasn't per se about my own need for an image associated with a car, but more that what makes a car is not it's image but it's image tied in with reality. BMW strives to create the image of the ultimate driving machine, but it's been making more isolated heavier cars recently and aiming more for mainstream (I still want a 335i 6-speed).
 
The opinions people form about cars come from the carmaker's image/marketing and from the reality on the ground (who is buying it, what are their reactions, etc.). That was the point I was trying (unsucessfully) to make.
 
A decade ago, Cadillac had a solid image as a luxo-barge maker. The CTS turned a younger corner and the Escalade turned a different corner...Now they are aiming the CTS (and, though I never see marketing for the STS/DTS, I assume they receive some similar image projection)...and I believe they are aiming it at the 30-40 crowd looking for an emotional response to their car (i.e. Not Lexus, more BMW and Mercedes Benz).
 
Sure, the CTS appeals to the 20-something crowd (I've liked it even more since it was pointed out to me on here that the DI engine can be paired with the 6-speed manual). But I don't think we'll see too many 20's somethings buying it just yet (even the young professionals who want to get into that class will more likely go with either a 3-series on a lease or a G35 due to it's price-to-content ratio).
 
Anyway....Chavis - The LGT definitely has a softer suspension. Apparently, Subaru decided to keep the suspension soft to take advantage of the very low COG. Rolls like crazy in the corners stock, but it hangs on since the COG still isn't at the tipping point. In 08 Subaru added some stiffer bushings and additional structural bracing. This thing turns-in like my 06 Civic SI (I know that sounds unbelievable, but it does!). Apparently all it needs is a stiffer rear sway bar to almost eliminate body-roll.
 
Met all my wife's criteria for a car: Sporty, strong acceleration, manual transmission, power heated leather seats (and their perforated which is nice), ergonomic interior, good in all weather, fold-down rear seats, expensive feeling but not expensive to buy.
 
I guess I don't mind sharing since we've already bought the car, but it was 24,500 brand new (not including TT&L). I couldn't find anything that had the same combination of what we wanted for even $5000 more, so we jumped on it.
 
Joe

"Cadillac's average customer age would support that notion. "
 
what is the average age of MB, Lexus and Infinit owners? Without that info your assertions that Cadillac buyers are older than other luxury buyers are pointless. Common sense would tell you (I think) that people who are older tend to be better off and can afford luxury cars. Shockingly I dont see many 35 year olds driving S550s, LS460s or 750is. Maybe you do.
 
"I still think Cadillac builds some of the best older person cars. They are simpler, more intuitive in internal design (on the STS and DTS). Bigger buttons for older fingers on those models. "
 
I'm not sure where you are getting your impressions from. The STS doesnt appeal to older drivers any more than the E class or GS. Its a very capable RWD car that is almost as sharp as the CTS. As for large buttons, I suggest you gander inside the cockpit of any Honda or Toyota product if you want to see amplified buttons designed for people with bad eyesight. The DTS shares many of its buttons and dials with other GM cars like the Lucerne and its markings are no larger than those in a Chevy, Buick or even the CTS. Same applies for STS although it shares few interior components with other GM models save the Escalade. There is nothing screaming "For old men only" about either car's interior.
 
Average age for Cadillac buyers is skewed by the fact that the DTS is the brands 2nd or 3rd best selling vehicle. I'm sure fleet sales dont count and most retails sales of the DTS are going to be to people well over 60. If you take away the DTS I'm sure the age would drop significantly. The SRX, CTS, STS and Escalade are not old men's cars.
 
"A decade ago, Cadillac had a solid image as a luxo-barge maker. "
 
Not really, the STS came out in 1992 and was very Euro-oriented in power and ride. 10 years ago I think the Fleetwood was already out of production. The FWD northstar Cadillacs were basically in between cars, they werent as sporty as RWD cars from Germany but they were definitely competent in the handling department and fast. The STS, Catera nor ETC were "luxury barges" as you claim. As I stated before, the only car that could loosely hold that title was the Deville.
 
"However it will be a while before it's not thought of a grandpas car.
  
You can't erase decades of cars aimed straight at the grey hair set in just a few years. "
 
The first CTS came out 6 years ago. The Escalade came out in 1999. Its been a while since Cadillac made cars only for older people. lets just say it will be a while before people who base their impressions on cars sold 20 years ago stop perceiving Cadillac as an old persons brand. I have already changed my opinion of the type of vehicles they make. The only true old persons brands out there these days are Toyota (with a few exceptions like Yaris), Lexus, Buick (slowly changing for the better) and Lincoln. Everyone else is aiming for the same age group more or less.

Just so this argument can be stopped, the average Mercedes-Benz buyer is between 60 and 65 while the average AMG buyer is 5 years younger. MB is actually more of an old-man brand than Cadillac is these days and I personally love that aspect. Unlike Cadillac, Mercedes knows where the money is and knows who has been buying their cars for decades. They continue to appeal to an older set while offering technology and performance that a younger crowd can appreciate. I think Cadillac is screwing itself over by trying to change its image, I know lots of older people who would never consider owning one of the gaudy new Cadillac designs and plenty of young people who would never own a Cadillac period. They are trying to commandear the BMW market and their cars just are not good enough to do that.

1487 - Your dedication to General Motors inspires us all. Really. Only you could take blog entry that praises the CTS's refined nature, intuitive infotainment system, and comfortable seats and turn it into an opportunity to bash the IL editors and your fellow posters. Bravo.

Sabastian - I couldn't have said it any better myself. He'll be back, though, with the last word.

"Unlike Cadillac, Mercedes knows where the money is and knows who has been buying their cars for decades. They continue to appeal to an older set while offering technology and performance that a younger crowd can appreciate. I think Cadillac is screwing itself over by trying to change its image, I know lots of older people who would never consider owning one of the gaudy new Cadillac designs and plenty of young people who would never own a Cadillac period. They are trying to commandear the BMW market and their cars just are not good enough to do that."
 
Pretty much everything quoted above is innaccurate. If you knew your history you would know Cadillac USED to be the preferred car of the flashy and famous. Your assertion that Cadillac is abandoning its history by trying to be more relevant to people under 60 is pure nonsense. Cadillac was trendy in the 50s and 60s and that's the point. They got un-trendy and their image suffered as a result. Cadillac is getting back to their roots. As for "chasing BMW" it should be noted you would never find an Escalade or DTS at a BMW dealership. I love it when people who want defend MB repetitive designs want to call anything with some originality and flair "gaudy". The "gaudy" 2008 CTS has posted impressive sales since coming out and won numerous awards. Why exactly would Cadillac be listening to you when their direction seems to be working? Your login name tells us where you stand and you seem to have a problem with anything not made by MB. BTW, anyone who wouldnt own a CAdillac, period, as you say probably is anti domestic vehicle and really could care less about the details of what Caddy offers. The idea that some people out there hate some brands or manufacturers so much that they would never buy one of their vehicles means nothing. I would never buy a Honda but they still make some decent cars.
 
"1487 - Your dedication to General Motors inspires us all. Really. Only you could take blog entry that praises the CTS's refined nature, intuitive infotainment system, and comfortable seats and turn it into an opportunity to bash the IL editors and your fellow posters. Bravo."
 
Actually, the purpose of the post was to say the CTS is for old men and that was OK with the auther since old men cars have some redeemable qualities. I have no problem with the praise for the car's features but the notion that any 4 door cadillac is for senile seniors is just plain false. If you bother to check out the opinions of other automotive publications you would see my position has nothing to do with "dedication to GM". Sorry that I dont agree with EVERYTHING posted here as you seem to, but that fact alone doesnt make me dedicated to GM. I wouldn't buy at least a 3rd of the models GM offfers today starting with any of Hummer's offerings.

sabastian-
"Really. Only you could take blog entry that praises the CTS's refined nature, intuitive infotainment system, and comfortable seats and turn it into an opportunity to bash the IL editors and your fellow posters. Bravo."
 
Did you not read this part of the original blog entry?
 
"I can't help but think "old man." I'm sorry, but that's just what I associate it with. So when I was given the keys to our new 2008 Cadillac CTS, I naturally thought, 'OK, I'll be an old man for the weekend.'"
 
For the life of me, I still don't see how the CTS could evoke this image. The last generation car was even further from this opinion than the current '08 model. So before you try to attack 1487 for his views read the original blog entry and try discover the tone. I definitely see where he's coming from.

The whole image thing is so shallow its pathetic. WHO CARES what other people think of you in a car? Come on people, get some back bone! No wonder so much of the world hates Americans. This kind of self consciousness, image conscious, how do I look attitude is really pathetic when you think about it.
 
I plan to buy a 2010 CTS-V next year. I'm buying it because I like the way it looks, and I like the features and the peformance it will offer. I'm certain many of my friends, family, and co-workers will have no idea what a CTS-V is, and will only look at it as a Cadillac, and will think I drive an old man's car at 35. I honestly don't give a crap if they think that. I'm buying the car for me, not them.
 
If you buy a car solely for what other people may think of you, then you have some serious personal insecurities that you should seek professional help for.

Well, just because Caddy built the CTS to attract younger buyers does not mean that in reality that's what's happening. According to JD Power, the age demographic for the 2008 CTS is like this:
 
16-34 years: 3.3%
35-54 years: 37.4%
55+ years: 59.2%
 
Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080117.wh-dealweekCTS-0117/BNStory/specialGlobeAuto
 
Also according to JD Power & Associates Power Information Network:
 
The average age of a buyer of BMW’s 3-Series cars was 42, while Lexus’ buyers for the IS averaged 41 years of age. The compact premium category average age is 45, per the consultancy.
 
Source: http://thepassionatepursuit.com/2007/10/15/debunking-the-lexus-age-myth/
 
I know this is not going to end the argument but at least now there are some cold hard facts on the table...

1487 you managed to take everything I said out of context and argue points that I never even made. Are you by chance a lawyer? (Sorry couldn't resist, my father is a lawyer by the way :) ). I never said anything about Cadillac's history in the '50's or '60's because at the end of the day they sold far fewer cars during that period then they did during the 1990's when they were appealing to an older market. I was arguing that Cadillac is abandoning a very stable clientele for a market that is notoriously finicky. Part of the reason Mercedes-Benz has remained so profitable over the years is because it knows the market for luxury cars. I never said Mercedes were better cars than Cadillacs, I just said the company has a better understanding of who purchases its cars.
 
As for attacking Mercedes styling when all I said was that some of the seniors I know do not like Cadillac's new styling is absurd. I never said anything about my own preference for Cadillac's styling or anything about Mercedes' styling period.
 
Lastly, there are plenty of cars that I love that come from other companies other than Mercedes. I do love Benzes, true, but I appreciate all cars and the engineering ingenuity behind them.
 
-Sorry for the length of this post, I got a little worked up.

1487's grammar and spelling lead me to believe he isn't a lawyer. That is all.

"Actually, the purpose of the post was to say the CTS is for old men and that was OK with the auther since old men cars have some redeemable qualities."
  
What I got out of this post = she had a connection from her childhood that linked her grandfather with cadillacs. She even apologizes about the way she feels!
  
louiswei: Good to know, thanks for the info!

Ill just use some logic here. As another poster stated, not many 20-30 year olds can afford a $35K+ autotmobiles. On that note most luxury marks sell to an older demogoraphic because they usually have or make more money. Its that simple
folks.
 
Yes, Cadillac makes cars today that may appeal to younger buyers but that doesnt mean that they are buying them. Same could be said for any other luxury mark.
 
The same could be said regarding a 5 Series. Yes, its a great car but I couldnt see myself driving one being 30 as its just not me (M5 exempt). Ill gladly take a 135i/335i. Not that Im image conscious about driving a CTS or a 5 Series but as of right now I dont need or want that much car.
 
Ill use my father for example. He's 51, owns a 2007 Lexus G450h, a slightly modified 2005 Toyota MRS Spyder, and a 2006 Toyota Avalon Limited. Id say one of these cars doesnt really fit his age demographic and there is nothing wrong with that.

I was trying to be nice, dougtheeng. Did you get your new MINI Cooper?

I am glad to see this post return to a civil tone. At the end of the day the CTS is a really excellent car regardless of who may purchase it.
 
On another note has anyone taken notice of the mileage. It seems IL is putting miles on the CTS even slower then they were with the C300. I would have thought these two would be the most desirable cars in the fleet.

"one of these cars doesnt really fit his age demographic"
 
Actually, hondacura4, I think all 3 cars fit his age demographic. The GS450h and Avalon are probably his daily commuter and the MRS Spyder as his mid-life-crisis car.
 
They fit perfectly and your father has good taste!

AUTHOR: dougtheeng
DATE: 04/01/2008 10:47:48 PM
EMAIL: dougtheengineer@hotmail.com

"I was trying to be nice, dougtheeng. Did you get your new MINI Cooper?"
 
I did indeed. Unlike Joe, I don't have Flickr, but I think you know what they look like.
 
Amazing little car, and I'm getting 34+ mpg which is exactly what I was hoping for.

Guess what? Old people have nice stuff.

"I never said Mercedes were better cars than Cadillacs, I just said the company has a better understanding of who purchases its cars. "
 
I'm glad you have the ability to make that call. As far as I can tell Cadillac has vehicles that cover a wide range of buyers and I'm not quite sure who they are alienating with their product lineup. I see plenty of seniors behind the wheels of DTS and STS models so it seems to me they still have suitable choices at the Cadillac dealer.
 
Suby:
 
What about my grammar and spelling indicates that I am not an attorney? You seem to be suggesting I write as if I am lacking education and command of the English language. I have been accused of many things, but you have to be the first to accuse me (here at least) of using poor English. I assure you, I can use larger words if my language is too simplistic for your tastes but I don't see the point nor do I have the time.

"one of these cars doesnt really fit his age demographic "
 
I agree, he's too young for the Avalon, did he inherit it or something? :)

"Suby:
  
What about my grammar and spelling indicates that I am not an attorney? You seem to be suggesting I write as if I am lacking education and command of the English language. I have been accused of many things, but you have to be the first to accuse me (here at least) of using poor English. I assure you, I can use larger words if my language is too simplistic for your tastes but I don't see the point nor do I have the time."
 
Relax, man. Nobody is perfect (Romans 3:23).
 
By the way, I may be wrong, but I think "grammar and spelling" are a compound subject. Therefore, "indicate" should've been used instead of "indicates." And you spelled "author" "auther" in your previous comment. Have a nice day/night.

"By the way, I may be wrong, but I think "grammar and spelling" are a compound subject. Therefore, "indicate" should've been used instead of "indicates." And you spelled "author" "auther" in your previous comment. Have a nice day/night."
 
There is no spell check here. If you are basing intelligence on spelling then many of us are pretty stupid. I am from the word processing generation and rarely do spell checking the old fashioned way and I am hardly unique in that regard. Your diagnosis of my previous statemnt isn't even accurate. "indicate" would have been wrong in that case.
 
Nowhere in the New Testament will you find a verse that states it's impossible to be perfect. I may not be the smartest guy around, but I know that much.
 
Perhaps you should just stick to IL cheerleading which seems to be your forte.

Everyone can make a typo but if you can't spell without a spell checker then perhaps you should work on that.
 
Nothing personal to anyone but how will you teach your kids to spell if you can't do it yourself?
 
It doesn't say much about the school system if we need computers to do the basics for us.

So instead of coutering my argments we have settled on attacking my spelling abilities? Got it. I have seen plenty of misspelled words in these forums but I attribute most of that to rushing as opposed to ignorance. I don't believe my spelling is any worse than others here.

How was my diagnosis incorrect? Please share.
 
Regarding your comment about the NT, I won't even bother going there with you.
 
I didn't say your spelling and grammar were worse than others'. I just said I don't think you're a lawyer based on what I've seen. I apologize if you are.
 
I also know that this is "t3h 1nt3rn3t." People aren't required to have proper spelling and "grammer."
 
Thanks for making things personal and calling me a "cheerleader." :rolleyes: I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to encourage and support the friends I have here. Is there?

suby,
 
feel free to encourage and support but you and others have to accept that some feedback may not be to your liking in a forum like this. What's the point of inviting the public to comment if you don't really want varying opinions? All car fans do not think alike but that seems to come as a shock to you and some of your cohorts.

1487, your comment made me think of a comic I once saw. A man is typing at his computer in a dark room. From the doorway of the room his wife is begging him to come to bed. His response: "I can't! Someone on the internet is wrong!"

"Actually, hondacura4, I think all 3 cars fit his age demographic. The GS450h and Avalon are probably his daily commuter and the MRS Spyder as his mid-life-crisis car.
  
They fit perfectly and your father has good taste!"
 
Well he buys Toyota products because he's a product planner for Toyota/Lexus, and the fact that he gets major discounts. He just loves the fact that Im a Honda enthusiast. =)
 
The GS and Spyder rarely get driven, the Avalon is my stepmothers daily driver. He drives a last generation Prius daily as his commute is 170 miles a day and its provided by Toyota.
 
Yes, Id say the Spyder is his midlife crisis car and Ive actually talked him into buying and installing a few aftermarket goodies.