2006 Lexus RX 400h: 2 years and 30,000 miles

Most people I know who own hybrids drive with a very deliberate attempt to get good mileage. Out of the many tanks of gas burned in 30,000 miles, how many did you try to get good mileage on?
 
You commented that it takes a "conscious effect" but how often did anyone on the staff make the effort?
 
It would seem to me if you're testing a car designed for mileage, you should at spend some of the time driving like the sort of people who would buy one.
 
At least if you want your road test to have any value.

firstwagon-
 
I have a hybrid & I do make a conscious effort to get good gas mileage. But there's value in a test like this, if only to convince the buying public that hybrids must be driven conservatively to approach even remotely the gas savings that they advertise. You'd be surprised at how many people are ignorant of this and end up extremely dissatisfied when their cars fail to produce mileage that approximates the EPA estimates.

Those are some bad numbers, ouch. I think the standard RX350 is the same, if not better.

Yeah, it seems hybrids are extra sensitive to changes in gas mileage. You know, I bet the fuel economy gauge/readout that is so prominent in hybrids does as much to improve fuel economy as the hybrid system itself. I make a point to check the fuel econ readout in my car often, and I try to get an improvement at the end of every day. Obviously that doesn't happen very often, but I always try and when it does happen, it is a nice feeling. And of course, any time I consciously try to improve my number, I get good mileage, better than what the EPA says. And I don't even drive a hybrid.

Geez, 20 mpg combined is pretty horrible for a hybrid, I'll bet that a regular RX350's FE wouldn't be to far away from that figure.

maybe you got a counterfeit battery from China.
20 mpg doesn't seem possible for a vehicle rated 27/25 mpg.
 
Edmunds's average mpg seems to have steadily dropped from the 27 mpg average when this car was new. Is it possible to take this car to a specialist to check if the battery terminals are corroded, as reported in other hybrid batteries? If they get cleaned, the mpg could come back.

E85 doesn't work. Hybrids don't work. Diesel has no monetary advantage. Next, lithium-ion electric vehicles won't work after one year.
 
Back to good old pure gasoline. And throw in a high displacement V8 for old time's sake.

firstwagon, I see *lots* of folks in Prius passing traffic on the interstates or jackrabbiting from light to light in town. There a loads of them here now (saw three in a one mile stretch of interstate recently). I guarantee the way these folks were driving them wasn't returning the drivers the benefits they (supposedly) paid for.
 
I remarked to my wife that they could've saved a few thou and bought a Corolla (or Matrix) and probably got the same or better economy given the way they were driving.

LOL... My M3 (err... should I say "our") is about on par with that gas "hog" RX400. That is just downright absurd fuel economy for a vehicle that promotes such lofty expectations.
 
For the record, the Highlander Hybrid is JUST as bad. The Mercedes dealership I was at is part of a larger group of dealers and at one time they had no less than 3 pre-owned Highlander Hybrids at the same time, reportedly because people were absolutely disappointed with the real world fuel economy figures.
 
Let's be honest here, the Prius gets the fuel economy it does because it just happens to be a rollerskate with a favorable coefficient of drag.

If you removed the electric motor/batteries(weight) from the Prius and kept the Atkinson cycle engine, low resistance tires, aero shape and 'fuel economy' gauge, I would guess that you would get very similar fuel economy with the normal Prius.

How has the car's fuel economy changed since you bought it? Maybe something is wrong with the system... those numbers seem low even for the normal "hybrid reality check" we're seeing on the Prius and others.

I currently drive an 03 Envoy that gets nearly the same mpg as this RX. I've owned the Envoy for 2 years and have averaged 20 mpg, with a low of 18 in town and a high of about 26 on interstate.
  
And I agree with several of the posts here, the biggest contributing factor to improving mpg is the unit behind the wheel.

Word. Get a regular RX350 and save a few thousand bucks.

"Diesel has no monetary advantage. "
 
That's not correct. Go back and check your math. Be sure to include resale value in your calculations.

Consumer Reports just dissed this model for its lousy MPG performance. So, in this case, I don't think it's the driver, it's the vehicle.

hybrids help in traffic jams and it also makes you drive more conservatively. I assume if you removed the hybrid components for a Prius, you would probably get an average of 5 MPG less than what you can get now
 
but in traffic jams, the engine shut off is really nice. it also calms me down when I would otherwise be a masshole driver

Wow, so many hybrid-haters among the endmunds "enthusiasts".
 
FWIW, the 400h is supposed to be a "performance hybrid". Unimpressive numbers for sure, yet I imagine a RX350 would have gotten 16mpg in similar driving conditions.
 
Also, the Prius and Honda Civic hybrid are the only two hybrids worth buying IMO. They both return 40-50mpg for most drivers. This is a 10-15 mpg increase over what the non-hybrid equal would return (Corolla & Civic).
 
The Escape Hybrid is a decent option if you MUST have SUV qualities.
 
Don't hate on the hybrids. It's petty. They are a transitional vehicle until we figure out our next fuel source.
 
Cheers, nf

From GreenHybrid's mileage database:
 
Median: 25.3
Mean: 25.3
Middle 50%: 23.4-27.5
StDev: 3.1
StErr: .4
N: 54
 
54 cars isn't much and GH is probably biased to efficiency-minded drivers, but you guys are pretty far on the low end of things.
 
karjunkie: CR also gets absolutely horrible mileage on its hybrids. I seem to remember them getting low 40's on their Prius II. Without knowing their driving style I would absolutely not trust their numbers.

BALL169...thats totally not true about an Envoy...My parents own an 04 Envoy and it gets way worst mileage than our 02 Expendition and 06 Tundra Double Cab(tundra have the best of the 3)...The envoy is only a V6 so check your facts before u write comments...Lexus RX is the best my aunt own one plus our Envoy will be traded in for a 09 TOYOTA VENZA because of gas prices here in texas!!!

lexusisboi, I have the facts, I've calculated the mileage since my first fill up the day I bought the vehicle.
 
The Envoy I have is not the extended 4 wheel drive model, perhaps that's the difference. Plus, my "in town" mileage is not "in city" mileage, I live in a very rural area of Missouri, there is no stop-and-go traffic here.

don't have a large sample size for the gas only rx350 but from fueleconomy.com
 
21.3 MPG average for the 2007 4wd RX350 (only 1 driver)
 
24.0 MPG average for the 2006 4wd RX400h (20 drivers)
 
24.5 MPG average for the 2007 4wd RX400h (8 drivers)

"The envoy is only a V6 so check your facts before u write comments.."
 
The Envoy never came with a V6, it's a straight six.

Again, consider having someone look at the battery terminals for corrosion.
That's a known issue that makes a battery worthless.
But an easy fix.
 
20 mpg is what a regular RX350 4WD would get. According to the revised 27/25 mpg ratings, 20 mpg would be off the wall. Something is broken.

Firstwagon-Thats what i meant to put inline-6 but however it go its still a crappy car!!!

I'm gonna have to back up bal169 on this one. My Trailblazer (also a SWB 2wd, with 3.42's) gets pretty much the same mileage (if I try). And what's crappy about it? It's highly capable, handles decently for a tall BOF SUV, has equipment that Hondas (ANY Honda) could only dream about, and goes like Stink (especially considering the 6 is the BASE Engine!). About the only thing wrong with it is the 4-speed automatic. Oh for the 6-Speed Manual this engine so desperatly wants!

And, back to the original topic...
  
So why isn't this vehicle in the normal "Blog" rotation like all of the other long-term cars? I understand it's a special extended-test circumstance, but shouldn't it recieve the same treatment as all the other cars, just for a longer period? And why is the mileage so low? The one year cars regularly gather 20k+ miles on them. Who has (or more specifically, Hasn't) been driving this thing? 30k miles is a rather Poor test of long term durability- the warranty probably isn't even up yet. May I suggest buying a Civic Hybrid or Prius with ~100k miles on it, if long-term durability is the test?

"Firstwagon-Thats what i meant to put inline-6 but however it go its still a crappy car!!!"
 
its 7 years old, it's unlikely to be the benchmark at that age.

lexusisboi
 
you need a lesson in economics.
 
If the envoy is paid off. The cost to you is about $0 a month.
 
Say you spend 25k on that new crossover.
 
if its a 5 year loan, no interest, thats $416 a month for the new car.
 
How bad is you enovy's milage that you would spend an extra 416 dollars a month?
 
for example. if you drive 2000 miles a month. and the enovy gets 15mpg thats 133 gallonsor @ $4/gallon = 533 dollars a month.
 
say the new car gets double that millage.
2000/30= 66 gallons = 266 dollars a month.
 
total enovy costs = 533
total toyota costs = 682
 
Unless your enovy gets less then ~12mg. it will be cheaper to keep the enovy.
 
And thats if the toyota gets 30mpg, and costs just 25k.

I also used very high milage numbers there.
 
if you are more average, and drive about 15k miles a year, or 1250 miles a month you get this:
 
Envoy
(1250/15)*4= 333 dollars a month
Toyota
(1250/30)*4 + 416 = 582 dollars a month

But that's assuming the Toyota get 30 mpg and it won't.

firstwagon: I know, but I was trying to give it the benefit of the doubt. And even then it loses.
 
this is a break even point for a 25k car, your new car needs to get about 3.5 times the fuel economy of the old one.

You are not buying a new car to save gas.
You are buying a new car because:
1) You want a new car.
2) You want to "save gas" because you don't want a large weekly reminder that you have to pay to drive a car.
 
A hybrid acomplishes number 2 well because you pay up front and forget. Your weekly reminder is much smaller then.
And that's why people want to "Save gas". To get a smaller weekly reminder.

If you get the V-6 powered Venza, you won't get better fuel economy than the Envoy. 268hp doesn't come for free.
 
If you get the 4-cylinder Venza, it will be dramatically slower and less capable than the Envoy, with marginally better fuel economy (I'd bet it won't get better than 25 MPG).

billt9
 
But alot of times, people use the excuse that they are buying to save money by spending less on gas.
 
IMHO its stupid to spend 300 dollars a month, to save the 10-20 bucks a week tops at the pump. Its just rationalizing a purchase.

stingray454,
The Japanese Venza, the Mark X Zio, is rated at:
3.5L V6 2WD: 10.2 km/L
The Rav4/Vanguard is rated at:
3.5L V6 4WD: 9.6 km/L, 19/26/21 mpg.
The GMC Envoy
4.2L V6 2WD: 14/20/16 mpg.
 
One would expect the 3.5-liter Venza to get something around 20/27 mpg. Essentially the same as a Camry V6. Since it's merely a Camry wagon with its own unique styling.

first off my mom pay 650 a month for her Envoy which the car cost $36,000 all together...its in the shop every week for something so thats and extra $1,000 for extended warranty she had to get which she have 72,000 miles on it...the car rattles and cracks if we roll over a dime but we treat the car with the best of care...i hate it so i dont drive it...my Lexus IS was cheaper than it, have more miles than the envoy do and never had a single problem...the same with Our 06 Tundra we love it!!!!

"One would expect the 3.5-liter Venza to get something around 20/27 mpg. Essentially the same as a Camry V6. Since it's merely a Camry wagon with its own unique styling."
 
If its a Camry wagon, then there's really no comparison to an Envoy. One is a car, the other is a truck. The Envoy can tow over 6,000 lbs., can haul over 1,200 lbs. of payload, and handle light offroading. A Camry wagon can't come close to that kind of utility and capability.
 
It all comes down to what you need. If you don't need to tow or haul stuff or go offroad, there really isn't a need to own an Envoy. Too many people bought these things to have something big, perhaps to compensate for some other body part (or parts) that weren't. For these people, a Camry wagon that tries to look like half of a truck but isn't, would be a better choice.

lexusboi - you're so biased it's pathetic. Do you wear clothing with "I love Toyota" written all over it? You should.
 
"first off my mom pay 650 a month for her Envoy which the car cost $36,000 all together..."
 
Your mom isn't too smart then, is she?
 
"its in the shop every week for something so thats and extra $1,000 for extended warranty she had to get which she have 72,000 miles on it..."
 
Once again, not too smart. She owns a lemon, and she decides to keep it with an extended warranty? Only a fool would do that. There's only one thing to do with a lemon: GET RID OF IT.
 
FWIW, I work with someone who bought an '05 Envoy, and has had zero problems with it in 45k miles. Not even a rattle.
 
"the car rattles and cracks if we roll over a dime but we treat the car with the best of care.."
 
Again, why would you keep such a vehicle? Cracks? I've heard of Toyota FJ Cruisers cracking, but not Envoys.

you can't compare an old paid off car to a new car.
 
like billt9 said, you buy a new car because you want a new car. (my case is I needed a new car)
 
when you are comparing a new car to a new car, you may be able to eventually save money. I have a coworker who just traded in his Mitsubishi Montero (100,000 miles) for a Prius. The payments will be $400 a month, but he will save about $250 a month in gas (he lives 40 miles from work). To that affect, it only costs $150/month for a new car. Not a bad deal IMO

We Live On a Island here in Texas called Galveston and you need a SUV to get around because of the floods...We dont care about tow & hauling with the Envoy thats why we have a Expedition & a Tundra...so thats why we getting a Venza its a way better ride & drive(have to wait till it come out)
 
stingray454-my mom can pay how much she want because she have it and everyone we know have the same problems with there Envoy but they already got rid of it...GM wont file our car under the lemon law after lying to us about they cant find info of it coming to there shop even thought we have receipts so she said she will just keep it and pay it off...the problem we have is when we leave a complete stop turning the steering wheele it will cut off...thats a safety issue to say that once we almost got hit from leaving an intersection because of the problem so before u say anything about my mom ask me!!!