2002 BMW M3: WOOOOOWWWW!

Wow awesome entry. Made me want to buy an M3 eventually.

"It's sweet to live vicariously through Edmunds though."
 
You said it!

this guys sounds like a shill for BMW. Why not just start working for them officially instead of pretending to be an objective journalist?

Right. Because I'm sure BMW is paying people to pitch *used* products, for which BMW-USA will recieve no money.
 
Live vicariously...you said it!
 
Have some fun for us this weekend!!

Doug, I completely agree with your assessment, taking exception to the shift action. I have a 2001 M3, and I think most E46 M3 owners would agree. The throws are a little long for a sports coupe and getting into 2nd gear is pretty notchy. While the long throws can be easily solved with a short shift kit, such a modification only exacerbates the notchiness of 2nd gear. Does Edmunds' M3 suffer from this at all?

jbond:
You're right. The shift throws are definitely a little longer than expected, but that does little to deter my fun.
 
And 1487:
Nothing offends me more than your despicable insinuation that I'm a shill for a car company. I can't be bought. I'm an objective journalist, and this car is fantasic.

535i, hunh? I gotta get into the senior copy editing business.

Gabbo:
It's a 1988 with about 200,000 miles on it.

Don't worry about 1487. He's still miffed that a non-sports suspension BMW can handle brilliantly.
Whoa, does that mean I'm on BMW's payroll?.....

"this guys sounds like a shill for BMW. Why not just start working for them officially instead of pretending to be an objective journalist?"
 
Why would he be objective here? This is a purely SUBJECTIVE blog. Read the title: "Raw, real-world impressions..." It's an electrifying drive. An objective view would scoff at the price, the fuel economy, the cost of repairs, the obscene tire usage.
 
Cars like this demand subjective, seat-of-the-pants reactions. Drive an M3, if you don't feel the same way I can point you in the direction of a very vanilla family sedan that will satisfy your objective, rational cravings.
-mike

I have an e39 540i 6 speed, and it's absolutely fantastic to drive in spite of its (absurdly) long shift throws. I have not driven an e46 M3, but I can only imagine how great it is with less weight, even tauter suspension and more hp (but less torque). BMW has predictable handling down across the lineup like no other manufacturer. I'm sure your evaluation of the driving experience is spot-on.
 
That said, anybody who drives one of the higher performance BMWs and doesn't feel the magic should stay the heck away from a used copy. After warranty they are either very expensive (for the folks getting serviced at the dealer) to keep on the road or moderately expensive and time consuming (for the DIYer).

All the Alero lovers eat your heart out.

Great blog entry, Doug! The intro was hilarious! Have a nice weekend!
 
Thanks for being nice to 1487, Mike! j/k
 
It's time to change my brake pads and head up to Buttonwillow for tomorrow's track day where I'll be eating E46 M3s for lunch! :dancing peanut butter jelly time banana: I'm kidding about the last part. Or am I? :o)

I think 1487 is miffed because the Aura doesn't get blog entries like this.

If it helps, I could think of a list of ways a bus is better then a M3.....

Is it me, or does every entry about this car sound like everyone loves it? I don't remember the last time a single car got such unanimous approval.

"There does not exist a word or phrase of such otherworldly grandeur to describe how this car feels. I have always been a BMW guy, from my 2002 tii to my current 535i, but I always forget how incredibly good they feel, the stunning competence in which every part of the steering, shift action, clutch, brakes, and loud pedal work so seamlessly"
  
  
This is the kind of driving experience I love and is probably the main reason I purchased our 2002 S2000. Few cars can offer a package where everything just seems to work and mesh so well together and Im fortunate enough to own one of them.
  
Many haters of "The Ultimate Driving Machine" always dismiss the brand because thier car of choice in the same segment offers similar on paper performance for less money yet they forget about the actual driving experience. People just dont GET IT!
  
I guess one would look at paper performance to get an idea of a vehicles capabilities but until you get behind the wheel and really, really drive the car paper performance means NOTHING.
  
Example would be last generation CTS-V vs E46 M3. Although the CTS-V was a very capable package it lacked drivetrain refinement, shift quality, and it seemed to be....just a bit too distant for my liking. The jerky drivetrain being the biggest issue with me. I just didnt like it as it seemed to "thrown together" as my younger brother put it. Hopefully Cadillac addressed this with the new CTS-V. Same could be said for the Solstice vs Miata.
  
The E46 M3 or any past M3 just worked so well. All the systems join forces and just provide a feeling that you rarely discover in vehicles of any age or manufacturer.

Doug,
 
An 88 535 eh? Very nice. I almost bought one a year or two ago....an 88 535is 5-speed with 304k on it. Awesome car to drive; embodied the old germanic feel. Everything is 5 times heavier in feel than a comparable Japanese car (I got out of my 06 civic SI at the time and the brakes and gas pedal were a workout by comparison). Felt righteous.
 
If you haven't driven an M3, whether it be a late 80's e30 M3, a mid 90's e36 M3, or a 2001-2006 e46 M3...you are missing out on automotive bliss. There are many other cars out there that perfectly encompass their mission, so this is not to denigrate them. The M3 is just a car that fulfills it's mission. It's a perfect straddler between luxury GT and Sports car (in the e46 example).
 
For those who think raving about a 6 year old example of such is "shilling", well, I think even you must realize you've stepped off the deep edge into a world in which you can not justify such a shining example of automotive clarity.
 
Joe

"Awesome car to drive; embodied the old germanic feel. Everything is 5 times heavier in feel than a comparable Japanese car."
 
This is very true. My best friends 2005 C230 Kompressor 6MT 4 door Sport has that "Germanic" heaviness about it. The doors are weighty but not in a bad way. It just makes the car feel so much more substantial.
 
My uncle has a 1999 C43 AMG and a 1989 300TE wagon and both cars have that same solid construction. The wagon has over 300K and not 1 squeak, rattle or anything. Build quality is just outstanding.
 
I still believe German cars are built to a higher standard and the construction processes are more detailed and expensive to execute. People always complain that German cars are expensive and this is one of the reasons, little compromise. You get what you pay for.

Joe,
 
I ran a 1987 535is from 1990-1992. It was a wondeful car. Cinnabar red with Natur leather. I sold it to a friend who kept it for five years and then sold it to her cousin. At last report it had over 350K on the clock and needed a head gasket. The only reason I sold it was due to the fact that I wanted a more aggressive track day car(I wound up with a 1988 M6).

hondacura,
 
I agree regarding the build quality. I have a Mazdaspeed3 I use as my commuter hack/sometimes HPDE instructor car and, while it doesn't feel cheap, it feels nowhere near as solid as my E36 3 Series track rat or my wife's X3.

Hey Road, I see youre in Ky also. Im in Versailles about 10 minutes west of Lexington, small world.

hondacura,
 
I live about 20 miles south of Louisville.

Haha it's so hilarous when people who have never driven bmw or just compare on paper post stupid comments. They just don't know what they've been missing.
Anyway I have 1995 525i with 5spd manual and build quality is amazing and it has more features/ options than most new cars. I have to agree, shift throws are long, but I can cope with that till I save enogh to get short throw kit.
Owning an old bmw is like marrying a retired super-model... High maintanance but boy she got some moves and gets respect everywhere she goes. If you own a bmw, you either need a deep pockets or you need to be good DIYer...
Also, I've driven 2002 M3 around the parking lot but wow I can tell you that it feels like the extention of your body. It fits like a glove. Everything: steering, brakes, suspention and chassis works together in harmony, like an organizm. My only complain is the raspy stock exaust but it should be easy to fix with aftermarket stuff.
For all BMW haters: Eff OFF! Please test drive one to understand why we love our bimmers so much. Of course, I drive civics and corollas too, and I like them for what they are- which are good economy commuter cars. But for ultimate driving experince, it's gotta to be BMW!

I wouldnt say you necessarily need deep pockets, well maybe the older BMWs. I dont know. My neighbor accross the street has a late 90's 528i and from what I gather she has had little trouble out of it.
 
My lil' brothers 02 330Ci manual as been pretty reliable. The only things that he's had issues with was the A/C as it used to blow cold air when it felt like it and the drivers power seat. Of course both issues were taken care of and from what he's told me nothing else has given him a problem. The car currently has around 80K miles.
 
He traded an extremely problematic VW GTi 1.8T for the pre-owned 330Ci and couldnt be happier. Now after recently test driving a 335i sedan he's wants to purchase one via ED. Of course I encouraged him to do so as I would get to sample it. Yes, Im selfish.

My 3 Series has 110K on it and average around $40/month to run(including tires). My wife's 2004 X3 2.5 had an SRS seat sensor replaced under warranty and that's been it for repairs. My US built 1999 Jeep Wrangler hasn't been all that expensive to keep running, but it has needed much more upkeep than either Bimmer- mainly electrical niggles as well as cooling system and exhaust issues.

"Whoa, does that mean I'm on BMW's payroll?:"
 
No but it does mean that your response was a little silly.
 
BMW people truly do buy into advertising and hype more than any other fanboys out there. Its really quite amazing to read these posts and all the defensiveness on display here. I dont think anyone in their right mind thinks BMW makes bad cars but it funny to me that BMW lovers actually get offended that there are those who dont aspire to own a BMW or feel they are overpriced. The truth of the matter is that most BMWs are sold because of brand cachet, not because of sweet manual transmissions or great man-machine interface. Most people that can afford a new BMW do not care about such things.
 
The blog posts on this car have been pointless for the most part but I suspect that will continue. We are all aware of the car's capabilities and they were somewhat impressive when it was new but in 2008 you can get almost the same performance from new cars that only cost a little more than this M3. The 335 would be one example.
 
"Anyway I have 1995 525i with 5spd manual and build quality is amazing and it has more features/ options than most new cars."
 
That had to be one of the funniest things I read. What new cars are you talking about? The average $30k family sedan has more features than a typically equipped BMW from 1995. And lets not even mention luxury branded cars. I see a lot of folks are saying "people who dont worship BMWs need to drive one" but I think the reality is those who think no one other than BMW can make a competent vehicle need to check out the competition. BTW, I have driven several BMWs in my time, including the 540, 530i, 328 and 330i. Nice cars but I would be lying to you if I said I felt like I had experiences automotive Nirvana after stepping out of the driver's seat.

"Nice cars but I would be lying to you if I said I felt like I had experiences automotive Nirvana after stepping out of the driver's seat."
 
So what cars do impress you?

A Saturn Aura impresses me. ;-)

I have to echo and earlier posters comments about the entire M3 blog being one big orgy of love, in terms of comments from Edmunds. Forget the existence of serious TSBs (which happened to be fixed on this car), the fact that car is "known to burn a little oil, especially if you really drive 'em...", and writing off an exorbitant shop bill as being "$1,200 closer to getting a free flight...". It just seems like too many excuses are made for this car where others would be lambasted...
 
For example, I can't remember the last time a Mazda RX series' tendency to burn oil by design was written off with such enthusiasm. Actually, come to think of it, the Wankel actually HAS a reason to burn oil (lubrication), what's the M3's excuse? Poor cooling or ring seating? No modern piston engine should have a reason to burn oil meant for lubrication - it's unacceptable.
 
Anyway, it is well known that BMW's are forgiven for so many sins because of the brand perception and the number of fanboys that support this image - journalists included.
 
As a note, I have driven most current BMW offerings and definitely find them enjoyable to drive, but not enough to forgive the baggage that comes along with the purchase.

"BMW people truly do buy into advertising and hype more than any other fanboys out there."
 
I would have said this comment was more likely for Honda people.

I was going to say Saturn people.

"So what cars do impress you?"
 
Many cars. Contrary to the silly retorts by firstwagon and estreka I never said the Aura is the only car worth driving. For the record, I think it's a good car for the money but I never suggested its superior to BMWS costing thousands more.
 
Almost every luxury car is good today, although some dont try to be as sporty as BMWs which is their right. The idea that only BMW can provide a great driving experience is nonsense and I find that most who put forth this opinion (except fanboy editors) have little experience behind the wheel of competing cars. Not that they would ever admit that the competition is catching up, but at least they would understand that BMW doesnt have the sport sedan/coupe market all to itself anymore.
 
every BMW I have been in has been nice but that doesnt mean that I was blown away by the driving experience or that I thought the vehicles were worth $3k premiums over competing vehicles. I dont know what kind of driving the BMW faithful do but my daily routine doesnt lead me to many opportunities to nail apexes and heel and toe shift. In other words, the supposed intangible advantages that justify the steep prices of BWM models would mean nothing to me or most other drivers. BWMs may steer and handle slightly better than Infinitis and CAdillacs but even if that were true it wouldnt make a difference to me considering where I drive. For those of us who live in dense areas curvy mountain roads are not part of of the driving experience.

My retort wasn't silly, it was very accurate. Saturn has always been about marketing, advertising and hype to move nice, adaquate but uninspiring cars.
 
BMW's cars create their own reasons to love (and hate) them. The don't need advertising or fanboys.

I really dont see why some people....ahem...think the article was so biased. It was one person who simply expressed the way he felt while and after driving a high performance car which happend to be a BMW.
 
Im sure if one of the editors wrote a positive article about a CTS-V or something of that nature some people...ahem...wouldnt be so imflamed.
 
Ive always admired BMW for taking the "drivers car" further than others and the M3 above is a fine example of a well executed product. Yes, Im sure I could find something I dont like about it (exhaust note/jerky SMG) but these minor issues dont keep me from liking the car.
 
I do agree that the majority of BMW customers probably do purchase BMWs because of the image the badge carries but there are enthusiasts like some of us here who actually drive cars like these for the exact reason they were concieved.

Dear, 1487:
So what do kind of car do you have?
That's OK if you don't want a BMW. am sure BMW NA would survive without one customer like you.
Moreover, when I said
"Anyway I have 1995 525i with 5spd manual and build quality is amazing and it has more features/ options than most new cars." I meant new cars under $22999 especially econoboxes and boring sedans both import and domestic.
I would rather drive my old bimmer to campus than drive my dad's new civic or sister's chevy on any day of the week. Maybe I'm biased, maybe it's just the badge that I'm attracted to. But I just love the feel of the bmw's and sometimes I just want to keep driving it forever. I don't know much about the automotive history but it was the BMW that invented the sports sedans and coupes back in the old days. All the others are just copies try to be like bimmers. Sports sedans from infiniti, cadillac, audi, mercedes etc. and etc. they are all copies. They could be good copies, but not as good as the original. Peace...

" I don't know much about the automotive history but it was the BMW that invented the sports sedans and coupes back in the old days."
 
Did you really just say that? You may not know much about automotive history, but there are so many well-known examples to disprove this statement, it's hard to figure out where to start.

"Moreover, when I said "Anyway I have 1995 525i with 5spd manual and build quality is amazing and it has more features/ options than most new cars." I meant new cars under $22999 especially econoboxes and boring sedans both import and domestic."
 
Last I checked, a Mazda3S Grand Touring fully loaded could be had for less than that, including navigation. That includes sunroof, heated leather seats, auto climate control, etc. It also has features nonexistent on the 525, like Xenon headlamps, stability control, LED tail lamps, rain sensing wipers, and probably more.
 
Did I mention the Mazda has excellent build quality, is under warranty, handles extremely well and also manages to match or beat a stock 525 to 60?
 
Not that I'm equating a Mazda3 to a 525, but the point is your comparison was haphazard and not well thought out. The e34 is beautiful and is definitely a nice, fun car to own and drive. However, don't set it up for failure by trying to compare 13 year old technology to what is available now.

"I dont know what kind of driving the BMW faithful do but my daily routine doesnt lead me to many opportunities to nail apexes and heel and toe shift."
 
On my daily routine I ALWAYS find an excuse to nail an apex or two as well as heel and toe- no matter whether I'm in my 3er, my Mazdaspeed3, or my Jeep TJ. And I always manage to hit the redline in at least the first three gears...
 
"In other words, the supposed intangible advantages that justify the steep prices of BWM(sic) models would mean nothing to me or most other drivers."
 
So the fact that you are unable to utilize a BMW's capabilities makes those who do appreciate and exploit them "fanboys"?
 
"BWMs(sic) may steer and handle slightly better than Infinitis and CAdillacs(sic) but even if that were true it wouldnt make a difference to me considering where I drive."
 
So what? If that's the case simply buy an Aura and trundle on down the slow lane. In any event, I seriously doubt that many BMW owners lie asleep at night wondering if they should have bought a Saturn...

"I do agree that the majority of BMW customers probably do purchase BMWs because of the image the badge carries but there are enthusiasts like some of us here who actually drive cars like these for the exact reason they were concieved."
 
Exactly. Just attend a BMW CCA HPDE-or visit my CarSpace-and you'll see what I mean.

"BMW's cars create their own reasons to love (and hate) them. The don't need advertising or fanboys.:
 
That is interesting because BMW has both. Apparently they didnt get the memo that they don't need to advertise.
 
Your summary of Saturn is all about would be accurate if this was 2000 but alas its 2008 and they actually make some attractive vehicles.
 
"So the fact that you are unable to utilize a BMW's capabilities makes those who do appreciate and exploit them "fanboys"?"
 
its not just me, it's most people these days. Traffic dictates that most driving isn't a pleasurable experience. I can tell you that the BMWs I see on a daily basis are inching along just like my crappy Saturn. At the end of the day most people buy luxury cars for the features and the status associated with the brand. That may not be the case for a few hard core BMW lovers who really love to drive but it is the case for most folks. This is why most BMWs are sold with automatics. If you really need a car that is a true sports sedan you have options beyond BMW, that was my point.
 
"So what? If that's the case simply buy an Aura and trundle on down the slow lane. In any event, I seriously doubt that many BMW owners lie asleep at night wondering if they should have bought a Saturn..."
 
It has nothing to do with Saturn. The average car today has more power and handling capability than it's owner can exploit. BMWs have higher limits than most cars today but on public roads it doesnt matter. My slow lane saturn has almost as much power as the 330i had and is just as fast to 60mph. Not sure that its much less boring to drive than a BMW in normal driving situations.

"BMWs have higher limits than most cars today but on public roads it doesnt matter."
 
I disagree. And even if that was the case, why do you care? You sound like you'd be happier reading Consumer Reports.
 
"My slow lane saturn has almost as much power as the 330i had and is just as fast to 60mph. Not sure that its much less boring to drive than a BMW in normal driving situations."
 
A "less boring" Saturn? That would be an Astra with @100 more bhp, I'd think. In any event, what I DO find interesting is that a Saturn owner who is so dismissive of BMWs would even take the time to read and post in the BMW topics. Sour grapes, perhaps? Believe me, you will never find me on one of the Saturn boards.
Unless I'm having trouble getting to sleep.

Here I am, "inching along"- but not at all like-as 1487 put it-his "crappy saturn"...

"Your summary of Saturn is all about would be accurate if this was 2000 but alas its 2008 and they actually make some attractive vehicles. "
 
If it were 2000 then my summary of Saturn would be less flattering then "
nice, adaquate but uninspiring cars".
 
The current Saturn are nice enough cars and look fine, likely equal to the Accord or Camry.
 
Good target to shoot for if you want to please the masses.
 
Thank god BMW aims higher though.
 
By the way, I can't remember the last time I saw an ad for BMW.

"Maybe I'm biased, maybe it's just the badge that I'm attracted to. "
 
Exactly my point. Let's leave it at that.
 
"I disagree. And even if that was the case, why do you care? You sound like you'd be happier reading Consumer Reports. "
 
My definition of public roads may be different from yours. I live in a highly populated area, not in some rural town with tons of empty two lane roads. Most of my driving is by necessity and involves being in the midst of hundred of other slow moving vehicles. We can all agree that BMWs have rather high handling limits but it is a fact that most Americans cannot exploit those limits in normal driving.
 
"By the way, I can't remember the last time I saw an ad for BMW."
 
You must watch TV. In addition, they adverstise in all the majoe car magazines. If you dont see TV or read magazines or papers you likely wont see BMW ads.
 
"The current Saturn are nice enough cars and look fine, likely equal to the Accord or Camry.
  
Good target to shoot for if you want to please the masses.
  
Thank god BMW aims higher though. "
 
Please spare me the BMW marketing speak. I dont share your view that any car that is affordable is unworthy of respect. YOu say BMW aims higher but BMW levels of performance and technology are available in many cars. Many of those cars are under $35k these days. I can assure you I am not suffering just because I chose not to devote $500 a month to a BMW. My lowly car gets to 60 in 6.2 secs, is as quiet as any 3 series, has great brakes, ride quality, sound system and styling. The only reason for me to buy a BMW would be for the greater snob appeal that comes with the badge. From a practical perspective a 328i would serve my needs no better than the Aura. You dont have to like it, but that's reality. I'm confident my car can hold it's own vs any 230hp 3 series.

"We can all agree that BMWs have rather high handling limits but it is a fact that most Americans cannot exploit those limits in normal driving."
 
So what? I can and I do. And that makes BMWs bad because?
 
"The only reason for me to buy a BMW would be for the greater snob appeal that comes with the badge. From a practical perspective a 328i would serve my needs no better than the Aura."
 
I don't care what you drive; it sounds like the Aura suits you perfectly. But it seems that you care a great deal-reverse snobbery?-about BMWs and who drives them. Which reminds me: you still haven't explained why you feel compelled to post in the BMW topics...

Nice pic roadburner. Which car is yours?
 
Lol nicely said roadburner in post #47. I think 1487 still thinks about why he didn't bought a bimmer unconciously in the back of his head and can't sleep @night. Moreover, Aura doesn't have RWD and probably would lose its resale value faster than it could get to 60mph.
  
Dear 1487, let's imagine if you've won a car and you've been give a choice of similar colored &optioned 3-series and Aura, which one would you pick?

"Nice pic roadburner. Which car is yours?"
 
The Alpina B7 WAS mine- for ten days. It came from BMW NA's press fleet. I normally prefer much smaller and lighter cars, but that big sled is a real hoot- with the 500 bhp supercharged V8 it will torch the 1/4 mile in under 13 seconds and top out at around 186 mph- and it still averages 22-24 mpg on the road if you keep it under 85 or so. I couldn't...;)

"So what? I can and I do. And that makes BMWs bad because? "
 
who said BMW's are bad? When you wear your love of a brand on your sleeve you are easily offended. My only point was that BMWs are not the only cars that can handle and that most modern cars in the $25k-$35k range can do much of what BMWs can do and are suitable for most drivers.
 
"Which reminds me: you still haven't explained why you feel compelled to post in the BMW topics..."
 
I didnt know we could only post under blog entries that pertain to the brand we drive. Did I miss something? I comment when warranted. I wouldn't have commented so many times if I hadn't been attacked by the BMW faithful who got offended that I suggested BMWs may not be the greatest vehicles available today.
 
I dont think BMW drivers are any more pretentious than the drivers of any other luxury brand. Some BMW folks refuse to believe that their cars are largely status symbols and insist that BMW drivers are "different" and primarily care about driving excitement. Most luxury cars are purchased because they are an expression of the owner's taste and success. Period. Nothing wrong with that but I don't see a $35k car as a wise investment since in the end cars are just transportation. I would love to own a 335 or 550 but not for what BMW charges. Its all about diminishing returns and once you get well over $30k for a car I think the word "value" is irrelevant.
 
"Lol nicely said roadburner in post #47. I think 1487 still thinks about why he didn't bought a bimmer unconciously in the back of his head and can't sleep @night. Moreover, Aura doesn't have RWD and probably would lose its resale value faster than it could get to 60mph. "
 
When the baby isn't crying I sleep fine. The arrogance of some luxury car owners is truly amazing at times. Your thesis is that people who dont drive a car as expensive as yours are suffering a miserable existence and are secretly jealous. Got it. For the record, you can lease a BMW for a few dollars more a month than a loaded Aura or Accord or Camry. Let's just say anyone who drives a family car that is close to $30k can surely afford to lease an Almighty BMW without breaking the budget. And since most BMWs are leased I would say that it's kind of silly to pretend "regular" people can't afford access to driving Nirvana.
 
You cant talk to BMW (or Honda) fans for long without resale coming up. I don't see how buying a much more expensive car just because it has higher resale value is smart from a financial standpoint. Since most BMWs are leased I dont think resale value is something they are worried about. You cant resell what you don't own.
 
"Dear 1487, let's imagine if you've won a car and you've been give a choice of similar colored &optioned 3-series and Aura, which one would you pick?"
 
If I had a choice of two free cars I would take the more expensive of the two. Then I would trade the 3 series in for a CTS. I already stated that the 3 series is a superior car to the Aura. It should be since it starts out where the Aura tops out in terms of pricing.

PS.
 
If I hadn't driven some of these cars perhaps I would be more inclined to buy into the hype but alas I have driven enough of them to know that I am not willing to pay a steep premium for bland interiors, engines that need premium fuel, small trunks and excellent handling.

" didnt know we could only post under blog entries that pertain to the brand we drive. Did I miss something? I comment when warranted. I wouldn't have commented so many times if I hadn't been attacked by the BMW faithful who got offended that I suggested BMWs may not be the greatest vehicles available today."
 
You just crack me up. Why do you feel the need to comment at all? Something has to be eating at you. Bad. I have a Jeep TJ and I never post snotty comments on the Hummer or Land Rover boards. My TJ does what I want it to do and I don't need to justify my choice. Ditto for my Mazdaspeed3. I leave the guys in the GTI, MCS, Si, and WRX boards to their own devices. Again, why bother them? And as for my X3 and 3er, I feel no compulsion whatsoever to troll the Audi, Infiniti, Lexus, or MB boards. What's the point? The same goes for my Speed Triple. However, there always seems to be a few non-BMW owners who just have to yell "Mine's bigger!" in the Bimmer topics. You are just another in a long line of those who-by all appearances-are suffering-terribly-from Bimmer envy.
 
" The arrogance of some luxury car owners is truly amazing at times. Your thesis is that people who dont drive a car as expensive as yours are suffering a miserable existence and are secretly jealous."
 
Not everyone. Just Saturn owners who continue to attempt to justify their "smart purchase decision" on the BMW boards...

"If I hadn't driven some of these cars perhaps I would be more inclined to buy into the hype but alas I have driven enough of them to know that I am not willing to pay a steep premium for bland interiors, engines that need premium fuel, small trunks and excellent handling."
 
Just keep telling yourself that. Maybe you will even manage to convince yourself.
Someday...

"Not everyone. Just Saturn owners who continue to attempt to justify their "smart purchase decision" on the BMW boards..."
 
Oh...you called me a Saturn owner! Now I am hurt. I love how Saturn worked its way into every response here. Folks have little to say about my points so their bottom line is I must be stupid because I drive a Saturn.
 
"Just keep telling yourself that. Maybe you will even manage to convince yourself.
Someday..."
 
I would gladly drive your BMW for free. The amusing thing about all of this is that the people who swear that any car that isnt a BMW is a POS haven't even driven half of the cars they look down on. You guys have spent more time downing my crappy Saturn then explaining to me why I should be in a rush to pay $40k for a comparably equipped BMW compact.