2007 Mini Cooper S: 20k Between Oil Changes

Interesting... my 2006 Acura TSX is equipped with Honda's Maintenance Minder system, and I'm running about 5k between oil changes. At the rate I drive the car that's about once every eight or nine months. Does the Cooper use synthetic oil? The TSX uses good old dead dino, and oil changes are $30 or so.

"In some rare circumstances, we (the dealership I used to work at) could submit a claim for the oil service if the vehicle was there for service for another concern at the time and would have hit zero or into the negative in the next 60 days based on the average rate the person(s) accumulates miles on the vehicle."
  
This actually happened to me on my last bimmer. It was in for a minor problem and they just went ahead and did the service even though CBS said I was still a few thousand miles out.
  
I kept my last BMW for 24,000 miles (from new), and it only needed one service, free of course. The disad is that you sometimes need to actually add oil in between the lengthy intervals. The nice thing is my dealer just did it for me on the spot gratis without an appt.

I would be worried to death about going 20K miles between changes, especially the first one. I know during the milling process, each manufacturer inspects each engine for metal shavings and various debris, but I'd still recommend changing the oil the first 1000 miles.

Unless BMW has changed its program, you are still eligible for an oil only service after one year if you do not reach the interval dictated by the Service Interval Indicator.
 
However, at this rate it appears that you folks will hit the mileage before the one year mark.
 
I recall reading in the SRX wrap-up that more frequent oil changes were done as you didn't feel comfortable going as long as the OLM recommended for oil changes. Are you going to do the same for this car?

Yeah BMW still has the 1 year or indicator light agreement. If you hit one year you can get your oil changed, even if the light/computer doesn't indicate it's time. But this service will not be the 1st service interval which will come when the indicator/computer tells you.
 
My first year is up in about 7 weeks and my Cooper S indicates I'm 3800 miles from the oil change. That said, my car's indicator is dropping rather rapdily as it said 4500 miles last week and I've only driven 350 miles in that time.
 
3 BMWs and I haven't seen anything negative yet from following BMW's oil change interval.

I can put some miles on your MCS for you, blueguydotcom. I'll go down to SD and you can have my WRX for a week or two. After that time, we'll swap back to our own cars. :o)

i'd be worried about some oil burn & diluation after 20k miles.

Opfreak - I agree, especially with the dilution. Some oil burn, if topped off, would help extend the life of the oil.
 
But these direct injected engines put alot of fuel into the oil. These oils are shot in a much shorter timeframe.
 
I'd guess that these modern engines, using the current oil change intervals, are only going to be good for ~100,000 miles. The BMW 3.0 liter twin turbo and Audi RS4 engine are both destroying synthetic oils after 1-3k miles.
 
Joe

Suby,
 
Thanks for the offer. ;)
 
I'll get by. My time with the Cooper is limited, so I'm gonna enjoy it.

I agree joe, at first i was confused as to why the direct-inject engines would dilute oil more, because in theory more fuel should be burned off and cleaner. (which they still most likely do). But the side effect of the super fine mist / high pressure, means fuel is almost getting pushed through the rings, and coats the cylinder walls with a very fine layer of gas. If I had a direct-inj engine, i'd ethier push for a 3k oil change. or just do it myself.

10k, 12k, 15-20k between oil changes, NO WAY! I've been doing my own oil changes & other preventive maintenance for 50 yrs, still believe in every 3 months or 3000 miles. I use quality products, never any sludge on the valves, covers or pan & no excessive oil use. I usually keep cars well past the warranty, anywhere from 125k to 150k total miles. I put 215k miles on an '86 Accord & never had to add oil between changes.

I follow the computer's recommendation in my GMC, but I do use synthetic. I know it's not required, but going that long just goes against the 3-month mantra that was ingrained in me growing up. I figure I still come out ahead changing at 6-8K instead of 3K, even if I do pay a little extra for synthetic.
 
A question though - while the oil may be good for a long time, is the filter good for that long? Do you have to use an expensive filter if going over say 5K between changes, or is it okay to go with whatever they use at the quicky lube?

I've got over 180K on my '03 MINI Cooper and except for 1 mid-cycle oil change at 5K miles (that I paid for), I have gone by the 'clock'.
  
I do spend a fair amount of time in traffic which gets me in for oil changes about about 12-15K miles.

No way I would go that long if it were my car. The computer calculated interval would only dictate how often I took it into the dealer for an oil change. I would do my own every 3000 miles as well.
 
The companies main concern is that the engine outlasts the warrantee. I want it to outlast the car.

I'm inclined to think the oil filter is the biggest limitation when it comes to long oil change intervals. I've read a handful of stories of sludge buildup in some Bimmer engines.

The old 3k/3month thing is based on old school oil and myth. Synthetics last longer, too.
 
CIWMB (California Integrated Waste Management Board) found that over 70% of Californians bought into the 3k myth.
http://www.3000milemyth.org/

Hey Suby-
 
Oil filter's are not created equal...so a bad oil filter can be the culprit, while a good one can be safe to use for 10k miles (easily). I intend to run my current synthetic oil filter for 15k miles on my 06 Civic SI.
 
Blueguy - While true overall, new engines utilizing direct injection are killing current engine oils. The amount of fuel making it into the oil, and not getting burned off, is diluting the oil to the point where it is doing bad things to the engine.
 
Some other engines (Subaru turbo engines for instance) really need a 5000 mile or less oil change interval for MOST driver's due to the severity of the engine environment in that car.
 
I might be willing to run high quality synthetics (with a high quality filter) in my 06 Civic SI for 15000 mile oil change intervals, but on a car like the BMW 335 or Subaru Legacy GT I probably wouldn't go much beyond 5000.
 
Joe

Unless you are running synthetic oil, I would change every 3K miles. You can get an oil change and filter for about 25 bucks, so why risk engine damage if the maintenance insurance is so cheap? My 94' BMW 540i however uses synthetic and never hits the change indicator with less than 10K miles, so I change it every 6K miles or so and my engine burns no oil.

blueguy
 
That website you posted is an enviromental website, not an engineering site.
 
They want you to change your oil less for green reasons, not because they are trying to save you money or time.
 
Maybe you go longer between changes but I agree with karjunkie, it's cheap insurance on a very expensive purchase.

first,
 
Actually, it's related to this website:
 
http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/
 
"The California Integrated Waste Management Board is one of six boards, departments, and offices within the California Environmental Protection Agency"
 
The CIWMB (a government agency) created that site to inform consumers that they're wasting resources and money on worthless 3k mile oil changes.
 
http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/Pressroom/2008/January/01.htm
 
Like the ridiculous notion of top tier gas and secretary's day, 3k mile oil changes came about from clever marketing. Cars do not need an oil change every 3k miles.

Bluecheese - Not EVERY car needs a 3k oil change. Some cars do. The operating environment of the car helps dictate that as well.
 
And no car should be "taken to the limit" of the oil.
 
Some gasolines are better than others, and anyone who doesn't treat secretaries well deserves the rough life they'll get. A day dedicated to secretaries is a small price to pay to keep the gatekeepers happy.
 
Joe

some cars need constant oil changes, most do not. if you have a dipstick, i recommend you check it regularly. my suby never made it to 3000 miles because there was no oil on the dipstick at 2500 miles, so i changed it then. (i know i could just top it off) if your oil does last, you can easily run even conventional oils beyond 3000 miles. i run conventional oil when acceptable and for oil filters, i always just stick to factory. some engines dont take well to synthetic oils and the manufacturer doesn't know to warn against this until its too late. some engine builders even recommend conventional oils for cars that run synthetic from the factory, but thats probably not necessary.

"The CIWMB (a government agency) created that site to inform consumers that they're wasting resources and money on worthless 3k mile oil changes"
 
OK, it's a government enviromental site. Even more questionable.
 
I did a little quick math. If I doubled the intervals at which I change my oil, I would save 10 litres of oil per year( which isn't really lost since I recycle it). I also calculated that I burn about 1200 litres of gasoline per year, none of which is recoverable.
 
You can always count on the government to focus on something that will make no difference and ignore the real problem.
 
The only real significant downside to taking better care of my motor is about $30 per year and about 1 hour of my time.
 
Add to that ..a better maintained engine will burn less oil over it's life (none of which is recoverable), create less pollution and use less gas and you get a win win situation. Better for the enviroment and better for me.
 
It's not marketing and it's not a myth. Even synthetic oil get dirty and dirt wears engines. Before you say that's what oil filters are for, take a look at the oil that comes out when you do a change. Does it look like it did when it went in? Nope.

The only real significant downside to taking better care of my motor is about $30 per year and about 1 hour of my time.
 
3k mile oil changes = 5 oil changes per year with only one paid for by BMW/Mini. At $45 for synthetic oil changes, one is looking at about $180 per year.
 
Now, if a BMW product really needed an oil change every 3k miles, BMW would suggest it as their CPO program is gold to them and the dealers. A majority of 3 series cars are leased, thus they return to BMW before 50k miles and are re-sold as CPO cars with 100k warranties. The CPO program wouldn't be respected or worthwhile to BMW if the avg 15k oil change hurt their engines. E46s galore are running around with 100k miles on them and there's not a giant outbreak of engine problems. So is BMW lying? The 99 e46 came with the 15k avg. oil change. 9 years later BMW is still doing it. We'd hear by now if there was a major problem as the vast majority of e46s on the road only received 3-4 oil changes by 50k miles.
 
It's totally a marketing myth that all cars need oil changes every 3k miles/3 months. Who benefits the most from frequent oil changes? Express oil places and obviously the oh-so-scrupulous oil industry. Golly they're trustworthy! They have nothing to gain from you spending an extra $100-160 a year on synthetic oil.
 
It doesn't hurt me if you want to blow your money on something unneeded.

Actually I only do 4 changes per year, I do it myself and I use name brand regular oil. Materials cost about about $15 per change (depending on prices these days) thus the extra $30/ year for do twice as many.
 
"E46s galore are running around with 100k miles on them and there's not a giant outbreak of engine problems."
 
Here may be the problem... are you under the impression that an engine with proper care only lasts 100K?
 
With regular oil changes 200K, 300k or more is normal.
 
Suit yourself though. If you want to blow $5000 to $10,000 on a rebuilt engine before it's time, it's your money.

180k on an 03 Mini? Wow, everyone should just do what he's doing. Congrats Mini

first,
 
I don't expect a car to last 100k miles, to be honest. The last car I had with over 100k miles was a 91 Stanza that I sold in 2001 with 150k miles on it.
 
Cars are already a bad investment. A car with over 100k miles is essentially of value only to the current owner. If you desire to own a car to that point and beyond, best of luck. I don't buy cars looking for something to drive for 7+ years. They're toys. The car this blog concerns is a toy, like a BMW or a Porsche. My next car, whatever it will be, knowing me, will be owned for 2-4 years. If I hit 5 years, that'd be a miracle. 7 years...remote chance of that, unless the car becomes an extra vehicle around the house.
 
If I want long term reliability and value for my money I'll buy a used Honda and essentially kill myself slowly out of boredom.

How about if they send off a sample of the oil at the oil change? Usually oil sampling on most cars where people change the oil so often seem like just a waste of money but I think it would be interesting to see with that many miles on it.

lol +1 blueguy. It still blows me away how many people are taken by the 3k mile oil change myth.
 
My last BMW received its first oil change after 1 yr because I hadn't hit the miles yet. I requested to see the oil filter and it was actually very clean. My trusted service advisor said it didn't even need replacement.

Read the owner's manual. If the service sign does not come on, you are still required/entitled to get one oil change every year.

I have read my owner's manual cover to cover, thank you. Was I not clear in my comment? The oil change was done at about the 1 year mark for that reason. The oil filter was replaced, however it was obvious that it didn't really need to be.

Ok edmunds and bloggers I have a question. Does not CONVENTIONAL OIL break down over time? (don't say anything about synthetic I don't want to know about it in this question) So if you were a low miliage driver say 4-6k miles in one year how often should your oil AND filter be changed? Every 3 Months? Every 6 Months? Once a year? I don't know.

skierx420 -
 
Its not so much that conventional oil "breaks down" but rather that, over time it suffers from 1) engine contamination and wear; 2) some dilution from gasoline blow-by and 3) water in the form of condensation. Because of the later, even if you don't put a lot of miles on a car, you'll want to change oil at least once a year.

It is truly unbelievable how gulliable some people are to the 3K oil change myth. Of course environmental groups want us to use less oil, and I am sure the oil industry only has our best interest at heart. Please. This is not 1960. Technological advances are not confined only to the auto manufacturers. Is it remotely possible oil has gotten better as well?
 
Welcome to 2008.

I have just received an oil analysis for the oil in my 06 Civic SI. It was AMSOIL Series 2000 0w30 with a PureOne oil filter. 9500 miles on it done in 4 1/2 months. K&N Panel filter w/ 10-20k miles on it in there.
 
Oil came back fantastic. Plenty of life left in it. Wear metals were about average for this engine after ~5000 miles. So basically, my car wore at about 1/2 the average rate. No water, very low amounts of fuel.
 
So I'll run 15k mile oil change intervals using an even better AMSOIL product (the new SSO), a better filter, and the same driving habits. My car can handle that.
 
My wife intends to get a Subaru Legacy GT. Subaru originally proposed 7500 mile oil changes as "normal" for that car. After some turbo failures and other lubrication-related issues, they cut the recommendation back to 3750 miles between oil changes for all turbocharged Legacy models.
 
Does anyone think you should do 15k miles on that car without analyzing the oil? Not if you expect long-term reliability.
 
Cars and the environments they operate under are different. 3k oil changes are safe for EVERYONE, under all circumstances, outside of driving less than 3k miles per year. Is it overkill? Absolutely, in almost all cases. But it's safe.
 
If you are knowledgeable about cars, engines, and oils, then you can decide what oil change interval to do.
 
But don't spout off to just anyone that 3k is ridiculous. Analyze their driving habits and car first, and then make a rational, SAFE decision.
 
Joe

joberg;
 
No matter how good the oil is, you will still get dirt, metal particles, gas and water in it over time. The only way to get it out is to change the oil. Can you go longer then 3000 miles? Sure it's your motor and the car makers won't care.
 
Remember though, they are in the business of repairing and replacing worn engines as well as doing oil changes. They also don't want you to drive a car forever, they want you to buy a new one.
 
You can decide who being gullible, you or us but I look at the stuff that comes out of my engine when I change the oil and compare it to what is going in.... and I'm happy I changed it.

I guess we could spend months debating the oil change controversy without any resolution. However, if any of you are seriously interested in the topic, the best review of the matter I have found is at http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html It is a pretty well balanced presentation with everything you could possibly want to know about engine oils.

Woohoo this blog caught my eye because of the Walter Pyramid in the pic, which is at my school, Cal State Long Beach FTW!!!
 
Lol anyways, I personally like cars which tell you when to have an oil change. Its not wasteful. As long as you use a good quality oil and filter things should be fine.