2007 Saturn Aura: Hit or Miss

James, why would bring such punishment upon yourself?
 
As far as the Aura goes, I like it overall. The interior at least looks nice, which is a huge improvement over previous Saturn products. The Aura is at a place now where most buyers won't discount it on interior alone. Having said that, I do think the fake stitching is a little pathetic.

I still cant get past the early 80's flashbacks with the fake stitching. What were they thinking? Did they have some leftover Citation parts that they used on it?

Hey i do these tests to pretty much every car i'm in! My friends think i'm not well but they don't understand.
 
May i suggest the A pillar trim tapping and tug test be added to your repertoire?

At least they got rid of the fake stitching on the '08s. My '07 has the same soft touch/rubbery material on the console/armrest as the top of the dash. I KNOW my whole console doesn't move that much, were you putting your weight into it? I would personally rather have harder plastic on the bottom portion of the dash. It stands up to kicks, scuffs, etc way better than any soft-touch material ever could.

just take it to the dump yard already.

Thanks for the videos backing up your comments. The movement on the doors is pretty alarming, but I guess a deciding factor might be how it feels under normal use. During an average car ride, you probubly arent yanking it in and out, haha.

Hey, does it bounce back to its original shape? Yes it does.
It's playskool. It goes back to the way it was even after a naughty tantrum, throwing editor has his way!
Cleans right up too! You never know where those editing hands have been!

That's more misses than I was able to find, but are valid nonetheless. Maybe I was too distracted by the awful alignment of the "aluminum" door and dash trim pieces and the misfitting and mismatched climate and audio faceplates. Overall a nice interior (light years better than most GM cars of even a few years ago) that I liked better than the Camry's... except for the gauges, which I think look tacky in the Aura. Is it too much to expect BMW/Audi/Lexus-like assembly quality in sub-$30k cars? I certainly don't expect the same materials, but lower quality?

Excellent vid. By gosh, James, I believe you're onto something here. These vids work so much better than the obligitory "fit'n'finish sucks".
 
Somebody get this guy a promotion!

When ARE you gonna get that trim alignment fixed via TSB?

James- How dare you? I wish you were never born!
 
Just kidding. Great post. You and I use the exact same "testing" procedures. I HATE interior rattles and plastic pieces that start to fail after three years (Not saying that that will happen to the Aura). I also noticed the same thing last summer when shopping around @ the car show. Love the looks, but when I pushed on the center counsel, in moved and squeaked. Same with the door panels. I'm sure GM designed these pieces to last "many years" without rattling or breaking, but I would not want to take the chance and could not help but think about my old Grand Am or my wife's Cavalier and how great they were the first two years and how the took both of us to the bank the third and fourth year.
 
I agree with stephen987. It would be fun to see how other cars hold up to the same test. While the Camry's interior has lots of opportunity, I can guarantee it would not show the same signs the Aura did.
 
On a side note, I sure hope this car and the Malibu hold up over time. It is the only way to build back confidence that these cars really are better and not just a pig in lipstick (in my opinion)

i think the worst part is the entire center console moving...somehow that does not boost my confidence in the car. but good way to back your words up. facts are facts. saturn/gm will probably address these issues in the mid gen facelift?

That armrest looks fairly uncomfortable.
 
To provide a little context in today's manufacturing, my 06 Honda Civic SI (about the 3000th SI made for the US) has some similar symptoms.
 
My armrest rocks back and forth noticeably now, at 36k miles, and I'm fairly easy on it. Doesn't bode well for 75k. Does it when I lean on it moderately. Doesn't take much to make it rock.
 
My door panel trim (a silver piece of trim running from the grab handle down to the armrest on the door) has disconnected from it's attachment point at the bottom. I can fit a quarter in the gap, and can expand or contract the gap easily. It has been this way since about 5000 miles, and hasn't increased or decreased noticeably.
 
The carpet in my trunk up against the opening (but not on the trunk lid) hasn't been attached to the wall of the trunk since shortly after I bought it.
 
My rear speaker deck rattles. My a-pillar rattles. And my windshield sounds like it's backing out of our friendship when the temperature dips to 15 degrees.
 
My shifter boot wore a rip in itself in an area I hardly ever touched after 20k miles.
 
These things do not bode well for the car after only 2 years and 36k miles. However, it's a first year model and I bought it expecting some of these problems. Also, the armrest padding on both the door and center armrest is still thick and plush feeling, the seats are still outstanding, and the thick leather steering wheel looks practically brand new (except for some peeling on the H imprinted on it...lol).
 
My point is that alot of stereotypes no longer apply. Honda may still build some of the best engines, but their fit and finish seems to be suffering a little (though my coupe WAS built in the land of the maple leaf and not the rising sun).
 
The first Saturn Aura I saw in person looked good from the outside...I sat down inside and saw a huge piece of trim on top of the dashboard completely out of alignment...the rubber was actually overlapping the trim piece next to it. But it was probably one of the first 2000 Auras...stuff happens.
 
Of all the various makes I've seen/examined, BMW, Lexus, and Porsche have had the best fit, finish, and quality I've seen.
 
Joe

Details are always better than vague references but naturally we have never seen such scrutiny on Edmunds' fave import models. The det news noted the large gaps on the Accord between the dash and the door panels. Did Edmunds notice that? Will there be video and close up shots? of course not.
 
Its been established long ago that the Aura's door panels are cheapish. This isnt new and it should be improved even though we have no reason to believe the durability or usefulness of the door panels is compromised. I have never paid much attention to the center console moving, then again I dont shake it on a regular basis since that's not it's purpose. Can the car use some nicer interior pieces? Yes. Does anything shown above prove the car is going to fall apart in the long run? No. Vws have class leading materials but below average reliability and yet we continue to have media types act as if there is a direct correlation between plastic quality and durability. There is no connection. BTW, the Tundra (which has been largely praised here) has some of the hardest plastics on the market. The CX-9 also has hard plastics inside based on my autoshow inspection last year.
 
There is nothing wrong with pointing out areas for improvement as long as we are going to see such analysis across the board. Instead what we seem to be getting is a year long coronation for the Accord and a year long expose on the crappy Aura that shouldn't have been been Car of the Year according to edmunds. Since the car isnt falling apart or leaving editors stranded like the Fit they seem hell bent on proving its cheaply made. Hey, maybe they will get lucky and the car will break down soon and they can REALLY prove its not NACTY.

James:
Congrats. This is a meaningful post. You should be doing a full walk-around the car and visit other parts of it as well and look for "things", then repeat the same procedure for the other cars in the same class-Altima, Camry, Accord you have in your LT fleet.
Oh, and one other thing I would do, I would go to a nearby dealer and check a 2008 model to verify if any of the weak spots have been fixed or if there are TSBs available to address the issues.
And yes, back up your statements with pictures, videos or detailed explanation of the problem.

I know this is going to shock a lot of people, but here goes. I actually agree with much of what James said.
 
The rubbery arm rest in the middle definitely needs improvement. When I went to the autoshow, I liked the changes made to the Malibu much better. The center console is much better. I disagree with you that the Malibu is much the same way. It is close, but much better.
 
From day one, I have not been happy with the doorrest. So, no, the interior is not perfect. It is however, a very easy interior to use and is very comfortable. I love the amber recessed lighting, nice touch.
 
No rattles at all after one year. I will do the same checks today when I get home, love the video. Allows us to really see what you are talking about. And I agree with estreka, you deserve a promotion for Auraville.
 
Now let's do the same for the Accord, the Altima and the Camry. Can't wait to hear the results.

Gotta agree with the above posters...the little videos here set a new benchmark for the long term tests and are now going to be a great way to see "hey, how solid is that?"
 
I would love to see a video of the Accord/Altima/Camry/Malibu with the same tests. Of course, if things don't appear as people want them to you'll hear complaints of "you didn't use the same amount of force!" or some such.
 
Again, great post.
 
On door gaps and why they are important: A few things come to mind. 1. is wind noise...more gap equals more turbulence equals more noise. 2. is Coefficient of Drag....more gap = more drag = more resistance at speed = less fuel economy. Over 50,000 miles, this might actually be worth something.
 
On the cheap plastics note: My wife's saturn Ion (2003, first year model) has some of the cheapest plastics known to man liberally applied to the entire interior. I mean this thing is the epitomy of playskool plastics. But darnit, after 56000 miles of well-cared for ownership by my wife, those plastics look brand-spanking new. I put the first scratch in one when I was hauling several 10-foot lengths of copper piping (the entire pipe fit by pushing it up against the front pass. windshield, the trunk was closed). I accidentally dragged one of the pipes down part of the dash board and it had a copper burr on it....made a barely perceptible scratch.
 
These may be some of the most unpleasant plastics of all-time to touch, but they are durable.
 
Joe

"The center console is much better. I disagree with you that the Malibu is much the same way. It is close, but much better."
 
As clarification, the Malibu has similarly flimsy plastic and can be knocked around a bit. However, aurakr is right, it is better. Specifically, the improved cover of the armrest.
 
Also, I'll try and do the Accord when I get it next. Ditto the Altima, although I'll have to hurry as its about to leave our garage (tear).

joefrompa, where was your '06 Civic Si built? US, Japan, Canada, UK?

I would like to see a gap check on the Accord as well. Mark Phelan had pisc in his review showing the issues he complained about. He was able to get 5 or 6 quarters between the door and dash on one side and 3 on the other.

I care about interior quality, but I don't go poking and pushing pieces around that aren't meant to be moved that way, and try to judge interior quality in that manner. Same goes with panel gaps - I think tight panel gaps are an overrated metric for interior quality, and can actually be a misleading metric for quality (i.e. it is possible to have tight panel gaps, but poor material quality that doesn't wear well - Hyundai and Kia are masters of this).
 
When I judge interior quality, I look at overall design, layout/ergonomics, look and feel of the materials, durability of the materials, switch and control quality, and I look for obvious assembly defects. Durability is important to me, as I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time, and I want the interior to look good 200k miles from now. BMW and Audi are two examples where interior quality isn't as good as the perceived quality. Both BMW and Audi are generally praised for their excellent interior quality, based on look and feel of materials and tight panel gaps, and to a lesser extent, design. Yet the recent peeling dashboard plastics in these cars shows that while the quality initially LOOKS high, and the materials LOOK expensive, they don't hold up well over time.
 
The interior on my '99 Chevy Suburban is dated and somewhat cheap looking with plenty of hard plastics, even by '99 standards. However, with 167k miles the interior has minimal wear, and almost looks like new. Nothing is cracked, warped, scratched, or broken. Everything works. All the plastic panels fit perfectly. The seats are still comfortable, and the foam padding is still firm and supportive. There is a little wear in the leather on the edges of the front seats from getting in and out, but that's it.
 
I would rather have an interior that has plastics that look cheaper day 1 but look like new 170k miles later, than expensive looking plastics that crack, peel, and warp in 4 years. Ideally, would like to have expensive looking plastics that last a long time.

"Hello, Honda? Hi, this is Dan. We're really sorry that we outed your Fit for the (still) broken transmission. We've stopped posting about that, really sorry. Tell you what, we'll pile on the Aura some more, and heap more praise on your darling Accord for you. I'm really sorry about this, it'll never happen again. Oh, can you send next month's check to my PO Box instead of the office? Thanks."

Stephen - All US made Civic SIs are made in Canada as of the '06 model year.
 
Stingray - A good friend of mine in his late 30's owns a 99 Audi A4 2.8 liter with 130k miles on it. I think you'd consider that a good test of time for a car's interior. He does not regularly treat the car, rarely washes it, has only once had it detailed by a professional, and does not use any protectants on the interior.
 
The interior is immaculate...everything looks like it could be buffed to new with a little treatment. All the leather looks fantastic. The whole interior feels like a fine leather armchair, properly broken in. It's quite impressive. The exterior is similarly robust...of course, silver paint that shows extremely well.
 
After sitting in newer audis, I believe his generation was the last to have such fine quality and design inside. The newer ones feel and look like crap to me at least. I can't wait for the new A4 to come out, to examine it closely, hoping that Audi may win me over.
 
BMW has, in my opinion, tremendous build quality (i.e. tolerances), and materials. But the e46 (99-05) and e36 (92-98) 3-series have not aged well for the most part. The e46 has done better, but is not yet as old. The e30 (83/84-91) has aged extremely well, except for the dashboard and leather seats. I think that was fairly common to most late 80's cars though.
 
Moving forward from that though, the 5-series...from 97 forward...have shown tremendous durability in their interior materials. Electronics? Some faults. Cooling system? Better upgrade it by 75k. But the interior is a work of timeless quality :)
 
I can count on one hand the cars I've experienced in some way that don't have a weakness somewhere. Some people prefer to have cheap interiors and rock solid reliability, others prefer a sublime driving experience (i.e. perfect compromise of road feel, interior ambiance, etc.) at the expense of...well...expense and durability.
 
I don't see anything wrong with either approach, as long as you don't complain about the other.
 
Joe

Great videos James! Hope to see more vids like these when you guys discuss "fit and finish" and quality issues. I tried these same "tests" on my 2006 Sonata this afternoon and guess what? The center console and armrest wobble ALOT. But the dashboard feels nice and squishy and doesn't sound hollow. I have to admit that the door panels are some of the nicest I've seen in a sub $20,000 vehicle. Some of it is hard plastic, but the cloth inserts and padded door armrest make up for it.
 
I've test driven the new Malibu several times and was very impressed. The only let down was the hard, unpadded door panels.

The Airbag indicator and Hazard button could be a deal breaker for me. They look very afterthought and besides everyone knows that's where the clock is supposed to go. I call Miss.

"The Airbag indicator and Hazard button could be a deal breaker for me. They look very afterthought and besides everyone knows that's where the clock is supposed to go. I call Miss."
 
you are only saying the clock is supposed to be there because thats where many imports put their clocks. I dont understand the point of having the clock separate from the head unit. Its just a case of unecessary displays but Toyota loves doing this.
 
I tried to shake my console and it moved but not as much as in the video above and I have to apply subtantial force. In normal use i would NEVER put that kind of force on my console.

joefrompa -
I agree with your comments about your friend's '99 Audi A4. One of my friends has an '00 Audi A4 Avant (wagon) with about the same mileage, and the interior is in excellent shape. It's a nice car for sure. I guess its the newer Audi models that have had interior peeling problems. I will say that they sure do look nice when new though. I think Audi interiors are some of the best designed and nice looking in the business. Other favorites are Jaguar and Aston Martin interiors.

Very useful videos, and ones that reminded me why I didn't like the Aura's interior, many parts of which felt cheap and unfinished. Sadly, Saturn has a track record for bad interiors and this one is true to form. Hopefully the Astra does interiors right!

I know a lot of folks would like to see this vid done on the Accord (which I personally think would hold up well to this scrutiny), bu I'd REALLY like to see it on the 6-year-old BMW M3. Center console on my 2001 E46 is a bit creaky, but nowhere near this new Aura. It's very hard to explain the value of good interior build quality with pictures - the video is great.

mr215 "The det news noted the large gaps on the Accord between the dash and the door panels. Did Edmunds notice that? Will there be video and close up shots? of course not."
 
I've attached an interior pic of the Accord just so we can see what Detroit News is talking about. Looks like the gap is designed right into it - that's not a fit-and-finish issue. That gap might even designed-in to reduce squeaking. In any case, fit and finish is only an indicator of build quality.
 
A gap between the door and dash is not equivalent the whole center console looking like it's about to detach or fall apart. I'd take a few larger gaps or slightly misaligned panels if they don't rattle, squeak and come apart.

"Hopefully the Astra does interiors right!"
 
It does indeed, and it makes the Aura look awful.

"Hopefully the Astra does interiors right!"
  
It does indeed, and it makes the Aura look awful."
 
I second that. It also makes the Aura look awful in every other category except for road/wind noise.

mr215: "I would like to see a gap check on the Accord as well. Mark Phelan had pisc in his review showing the issues he complained about. He was able to get 5 or 6 quarters between the door and dash on one side and 3 on the other."
 
mr215: "There is nothing wrong with pointing out areas for improvement as long as we are going to see such analysis across the board."
 
That's funny. Mark Phelan didn't a gap check on the Mablibu. He probably didn't have enough quarters.

"It does indeed, and it makes the Aura look awful."
 
Astra likely has better materials since its straight from Europe. So does Vue. Unfortunately the Astra has quite a few ergonomic quirks since its straight from Europe so it also has some disadvantage vs the Aura interior. Here's the thing, GM interiors are improving as time goes forward- hence the Malibu vs Aura. I'm willing to bet the new Lacrosse interior will be a leap forward from the Malibu. I will sit in the Astra at the auto show but I can tell you I absolutely dont like the design. Its interesting how when its convenient material quality is paramount but when its not (Tundra) you guys chose to focus on other other aspects of an interior. I have been in the Tundra and the Aura. The Tundra has the worse design and a loaded Tundra is far more money than a loaded Aura.
 
"That's funny. Mark Phelan didn't a gap check on the Mablibu. He probably didn't have enough quarters."
 
Very funny! No, its likely because the gaps were consistent on both sides and not big. The gap on my car is very narrow on both sides. Cant say the same for a G35 I sat in several months back. I see you have no intention of adding anything objective of substantive to these blogs.

mr215: "Very funny! No, its likely because the gaps were consistent on both sides and not big. The gap on my car is very narrow on both sides. Cant say the same for a G35 I sat in several months back. I see you have no intention of adding anything objective of substantive to these blogs."
 
I was actually pointing out that you seem to have a problem with Edmund's choice to pick fault with the Aura's interior while not doing the same with every other car in the fleet. At the same time, you had no problem with Mr. Phelan's criticisms of the Accord, however he did not perform a similar test on the Malibu.

"I dont understand the point of having the clock separate from the head unit. Its just a case of unecessary displays but Toyota loves doing this."
 
The point is the clock is the clock and it tells the time, the head unit is the head unit and tells head unit info, etc etc. I need to know the time; I look at the clock, I need to know what the head unit is doing; I look at the head unit. Easy, nice, and on a crowded freeway going fast safe. Putting it all in one is just cost cutting 101. Makes it look and feel cheap, which the Aura is.

Benson2175
 
You mean you can't tell the time on the MP3/CD/Radio, which has a default setting to the time? To each his own.
 
Just face it, the import fans are feeling pressure because GM appears to be matching, and in many places, exceeding their beloved imports.
 
I do want to congratulate James on starting the riot. Well done. Now do one for the Accord or we will start to wonder about bias. That is all we ask.

I just got back from driving our Aura XR. The wife graciously let me fill the tank, how sweet of her :-)
 
I did the same test as the video. Not even close. My center console did not move at all. I can't imagine the force James must have used. The only movement I got was the rubber cover to move forward and backward, as designed.
 
Are you sure you guys haven't hit something in the car or jumped it? I would dearly love to look inside the LT car and see what is up and have the editors look at mine. Oh well everyone be careful in the rain.

"I was actually pointing out that you seem to have a problem with Edmund's choice to pick fault with the Aura's interior while not doing the same with every other car in the fleet. At the same time, you had no problem with Mr. Phelan's criticisms of the Accord, however he did not perform a similar test on the Malibu"
 
He didn't conduct the test because he didnt notice inconsistent gaps in the Malibu. Its that simple. If you can't cram quarters into the Malibu's gaps I dont see how the test can be conducted. You seem to be a newcomer here and are making a lot of assumptions. You know what they say about those who make assumptions. I brought up the Phelan article to say Edmunds staff needs to put the Accord under the microscope the same way the aura has been many times because the Accord is not perfect.
BTW, the Aura has a number of flaws that I have noticed, but I have seen few of them discussed here. Main flaws from my perspective are lack of rear armrest and lack of depth to map pockets in all doors and behind front seats and overall lack of storage nooks in the front. Those are design flaws that are annoying, especially the map pocket issue. These issues are far more important than a console that moves if you apply 50 lbs of force.
 
"Easy, nice, and on a crowded freeway going fast safe. Putting it all in one is just cost cutting 101. Makes it look and feel cheap, which the Aura is."
 
Give me a break. The clock is in the radio because thats where you look to see information. On top of that the numbers are large and readable unlike the clocks I've seen in many Toyotas. Having a separate display and separate buttons for the clock is just stupid and many cars avoid that strategy. You are simply saying its the correct way since Toyota does it that way. Yet another person who wants to ignore the progress being made in American vehicles and thus is grabbing for straws. Forget about nice styling, 6 speed autos and great handling. You wont buy an Aura because its clock display is a sign of rampant cost cutting. At least try to come up with some real complaints.

"You seem to be a newcomer here and are making a lot of assumptions. You know what they say about those who make assumptions."
 
Actually I've been around since the start of the LT blog. Don't assume. You know what they say about those who make assumptions.
 
As for the Accord's door gaps, it was said before that they look to be designed into the car rather than build flaws. James said that he would post videos of the interior evaluation, so we'll just have to wait and see.
 
The thing that really bugs is the amount of protesting that takes place every time a criticism is made of a "domestic" car. Now this wouldn't bother me so much if the negative comments about "imports" were equally protested. For instance, did you happen to see how many blog entries have chastised the Mini's ergonomics? How about the Versa's shifter? How about the G35's shifter? How about the Camry's blandness? How about the Accord Hybrids driving dynamics? Or the Q7's...well...everything? Conversely, there have been loads of positive comments made about the Aura that go totally unnoticed. Folks keep saying that Edmunds is biased, but I bet if you counted up positive vs. negative for each car, you'd find that the Aura was generally liked by supposedly "import" loving editors.
 
Note: I put the words "import" and "domestic" in quotes because I believe that they are an antiquated method of describing a car's origin. Not only do they imply an "us" and "them" mentality, but they are also misleading due to the amount of "import" brands that actually build their cars in the United States and the number of "domestic" brands that build their cars outside of the United States.

"The thing that really bugs is the amount of protesting that takes place every time a criticism is made of a "domestic" car."
 
Maybe you should take that up with the staffers who post here. People are reacting to what's posted. There seem to be certain themes here with the vehicles and the Aura Theme seems to be "watch us prove that this is nothing more than a standard issue cheap GM car that has been overly praised by the press".
 
"Conversely, there have been loads of positive comments made about the Aura that go totally unnoticed. "
 
Unnoticed by whom? I have seen all of the positive comments (not that there are tons of them) posted about the Aura. Here is the thing, if people agree or feel the criticism is warranted they are NOT likely to comment. You figure out why some posts are heavily protested and others are not. Could it be the content and validity of the post? No, that wouldnt make any sense. It must be that there is a conspiracy to attack anyone who says anything negative about domestic cars. Yes, that makes more sense.
 
BTW, the complaints you mentioned about the G35 and some other vehicles are more like annoyances, they aren't really seen as design or engineering failures or examples of cost cutting. Nor do you get the impression the editors would not recommend those vehicles due to those annoyances. Do you get the impression they would recommend the Aura? I don't.
 
"Not only do they imply an "us" and "them" mentality, but they are also misleading due to the amount of "import" brands that actually build their cars in the United States and the number of "domestic" brands that build their cars outside of the United States."
 
We all know this. People still classify cars by the national origin of the manufacturer, period. I've never heard a Toyota or Honda fan say they wouldnt buy a Toyota or Honda just because its built in the US. Nor have I ever heard one say they would buy a US branded car just because its imported. Whether or not you think it's justified many people assume that any foreign BRANDED car regardless of factory location is superior to any domestically branded car. ask CR if it matters that many American cars are built in Canada and Mexico and many "foreign" cars are built in the heartland. According to them the overwhelming majority of Asian cars are very reliable regardless of where they are built and a significant portion of GM/Chrysler vehicles are not reliable regardless of where they are built.

"As for the Accord's door gaps, it was said before that they look to be designed into the car rather than build flaws."
 
Yeah I got that. Phelan's point was that the gaps were noticably large and inconsistent. He never said that his car was an example of a car that slipped through quality control. Perhaps every Accord is like that. If you got to the Malibu's website there is a section where you can compare pics of Malibu/Accord/Camry/Altima and see the same section of each car together. You can clearly see the Malibu has tighter gaps between dash and door panel than Accord.

"he Aura Theme seems to be "watch us prove that this is nothing more than a standard issue cheap GM car that has been overly praised by the press"."
 
And the theme of your posts seems to be "watch me prove that the Accord has been overly praised by the press." There are two sides to every coin.
 
"BTW, the complaints you mentioned about the G35 and some other vehicles are more like annoyances, they aren't really seen as design or engineering failures or examples of cost cutting."
 
I disagree. There was even comment made in the G35's blog which was titled "Get the Automatic" (Oct 10, 2007). Furthermore, the Mini's interior is not a design failure? I beg to differ, and so does Sept 7th 2007's blog entry titled "Complaint by Numbers". Let's look at the Mercedes R500. May 11, 2007's blog is titled "Impractical Design Cues." The Q7's blog has been gripe after gripe. I'm glad you mentioned cost cutting because it is something that Ford, GM, and Chrysler have been guilty of for a long time. The Aura and Malibu are miles ahead of the older GM offerings. If GM wants to change a reputation of cost-cutting, they're are going to have to be flawless. The Aura, to its credit, is almost there. From what I hear, the Malibu is even better. Bottom line, GM is doing a great job, but like I said, they need to be flawless.
 
"You figure out why some posts are heavily protested and others are not. Could it be the content and validity of the post? No, that wouldnt make any sense."
 
Take a look back at the comments made about this post. Most of them praise James' use of video to prove his point. The camera doesn't lie.
 
"If you got to the Malibu's website there is a section where you can compare pics of Malibu/Accord/Camry/Altima and see the same section of each car together. You can clearly see the Malibu has tighter gaps between dash and door panel than Accord."
 
Isn't it the job of a manufacturer's own website to sell their cars? I wouldn't go there looking for a balanced and unbiased assessment, and that brings me to my final point. If you disagree so fervently with Edmunds' evaluations, why do you read them?

"I do want to congratulate James on starting the riot. Well done. Now do one for the Accord or we will start to wonder about bias. That is all we ask."
 
Can't I like a car without being called biased? Or is simply liking a car equal to bias? Am I biased toward Buick because I like the Enclave?
 
And (I knew this would come up), I was pressing into the Aura's console with less force than my scraggly arms could manage. Back in college P.E., I was placed into the 15th percentile of bicep strength, which makes me only slightly stronger than a field mouse. So don't give me any of that boloney. I'll actually push into the Accord even more just to be on the safe side.
 
Finally, our car has ALWAYS been like this. We didn't hit or jump on it, or slam it with a SWAT boom, or hire Gina Cuarano to drop kick it for a week. Maybe this was just a Friday afternoon car, but again, I found other Auras and Malibus to have similarly flimsy center consoles.
 
May the riot continue.

I find it funny that some are arguing because their "aura" doesn't have the problem, they don't understand why Edmunds' version would!!! Thats exactly the problem with buying domestic, sometimes you get mediocrity, sometimes you get a lemon, and sometimes you get a ticking time bomb.

..and sometimes you get an outstanding vehicle that provides years of dependable transportation. That's also exactly the problem with buying 'imports'. I've had my share of both, and I'm extremely glad to see GM finally addressing the issues folks have complained about for years, and a bit saddened to see the top two import brands (imo) both backsliding in some of the same areas.
 
James, I won't scream bias for this topic. I like what you did, including the camera work. I also happen to agree, especially about the door panel issue. The rear door panels on my 07 Avalanche are a bit loose (the WHOLE panel). Everything's okay with the doors closed (nice fitting seams and such keep them firmly rattle free), but when opened it's as if the fasteners have been stretched a tiny bit or something, and is annoying. Still, I've had similar issues with the Toyotas and Hondas I've owned in the past. Both were better than some of the older GM products I've had, but even then, most of the ones I've owned have lasted nearly forever with proper care.
 
Anyway, I DO also agree with others- the same type of probing all of your cars seems fair, regardless of where they were built (or where the parent company is based?). I also agree that there has been a tendency to favor the 'imported' vehicles in the past, whatever the reason, and this comes across as bias (which it is, duh- all bias is is preference, right?). You can have a preferred vehicle and still try to be objective when doing your reviews. ;o)

Since I'm in the market for a new car and I'm seriously considering the 2008 Malibu and Saturn Aura, I headed out to the Saturn dealership today to see if there were any changes made to the 2008 Aura's interior. I sat in both the 2007 and 2008 Aura and can report that the fake stitching on the door armrests are gone in the 2008 model, and the door armrests are much sturdier and don't "flex" as seen in James's video. The center armrest is also nicely padded now, compared to the hard rubber in the 2007 model and it didn't seem to move as much as in the video either.

"The Aura and Malibu are miles ahead of the older GM offerings."
 
No they are not, this is something that has been engineered by the press. My parents have a '98 Intrigue and there are more soft touch plastics in that car than in the Aura or malibu. The press decides when they can credit GM or anyone else for "finally" getting something right.
 
as for the center console, in my car it doesnt move that much. Thats all I can say and either way it's not relevant to anything. Unless you are expressly trying to prove the Aura is cheap there is no reason to rock the center console back and forth. A normal owner wouldnt do such a thing.
 
"Thats exactly the problem with buying domestic, sometimes you get mediocrity, sometimes you get a lemon, and sometimes you get a ticking time bomb."
 
what does a rocking center console have to do with long term reliability or quality? I just got some seat time in a camry XLE and found cheap plastics and questionable panel fit inside and it doesnt prove that car is going to be unreliable. Hey, sometimes when you buy a camry you get mediocrity but if you'r lucky you dont I suppose.
 
"Can't I like a car without being called biased? Or is simply liking a car equal to bias? Am I biased toward Buick because I like the Enclave? "
 
Here's the point (dont know why you dont get it), you guys started out negative on the Aura saying you didnt see why it was NACTY and it seems like you are on a mission to prove its nothing more than the same old crap from GM. Obviously you agree with the majority of the press that the Enclave is nice and you did not start the LT test with the idea that it was subpar. Numerous people here have said that their Aura's dont rock as much and you said the Malibu you tested wasnt as bad. Then you say the Auras and Malibus you have seen all have the same problem. I will check both at the auto show to see if my car is an anomoly but I can tell you it doesnt move like the one in your video.

"And the theme of your posts seems to be "watch me prove that the Accord has been overly praised by the press." There are two sides to every coin. "
 
Actually several members of the press have been clear about the Accord not being a benchmark in this class. In fact, we could say a lot of journalists believe its not the benchmark since it lost to Malibu for NACTY this year. YOu act like I am the only man on earth who doesnt believe the Accord is the Second Coming. Neither does MT, try reading their comparo test.
 
I saw your comment about GM doing better but needing to be perfect. Have you been in the current camry? Its interior has more issues than the Aura. If Toyota cant get interiors 100% right and they are the most profitbale car company in the world I think we can cut the Aura a little slack. The Aura's interior is better than the camrys and as good as the Altima's to me and that is significant in my book. It could use some improvement (2008 has addressed some of that) but so can the best selling car in America. Now that we have reached the point where domestic brands (mainly GM) are competitive in styling, powertrains and quality we find that people are deriding cars like the aura because the door pulls arent as good as those on some other cars. Close the door on the Aura and then on a Camry and then see which car feels substantial. The doors on the camry feel like they belong to a Fit while the Aura's sound like a luxury car.

"Neither does MT, try reading their comparo test."
 
I did read that test. The Camry won, and we all know that your feelings on that car are well documented (Let me guess: Not as good as the Aura? Thought so.).
 
"My parents have a '98 Intrigue and there are more soft touch plastics in that car than in the Aura or malibu."
 
The Intrigue was still not up to the class standard. MT said that the fit and finish were not up to the standards set by the Maxima and Camry of the day while Edmunds ranked it 8th out of a 9 car comparison in 2000. Think Edmunds is biased against domestics? A Taurus finished third in that test, and what was at first? It wasn't the Accord.
 
"I saw your comment about GM doing better but needing to be perfect. Have you been in the current camry? Its interior has more issues than the Aura."
 
I have been in the Carmy, and yes, the interior isn't great. The problem is, Toyota already has a reputation with the public for reliability and build quality. The domestic automakers have a reputation for quality that has been lagging for quite some time. You and I both know that GM is making great cars, but the general public has not quite realized it yet. Reputations take time to change. The launch of the Malibu is not going to change GM's sales figures overnight. It will take time. The good news for GM is that if they continue producing quality cars and trucks like they are right now, the public will change their minds and you'll see GM start to make money again.

my thoughts on the camry are the same as they are for the Altima and Accord. Nice car with good performance but it looks worse than Aura and Malibu and costs too much with options I would want. A camry SE equipped like my car is over $30k and that's too much money for that car IMHO. The camry's styling is actually OK but the GM sedans are better. MT likes the Camry SE's performance and that is fine but they still ranked the Malibu over the Accord which was my initial point. You ignored that point which is unsurprising since you were arguing the press has loved the Accord across the board and I was the only one who did not.
 
"The Intrigue was still not up to the class standard. MT said that the fit and finish were not up to the standards set by the Maxima and Camry of the day while Edmunds ranked it 8th out of a 9 car comparison in 2000."
 
Intrigue beat camry in C&D comparo in 1998. It came in 1st place in a 3 car test. Dont recall a test in which it finished 8th out of 9 cars. You have a link for that?
 
"I have been in the Carmy, and yes, the interior isn't great. The problem is, Toyota already has a reputation with the public for reliability and build quality. The domestic automakers have a reputation for quality that has been lagging for quite some time. You and I both know that GM is making great cars, but the general public has not quite realized it yet. Reputations take time to change. The launch of the Malibu is not going to change GM's sales figures overnight. It will take time. The good news for GM is that if they continue producing quality cars and trucks like they are right now, the public will change their minds and you'll see GM start to make money again."
 
who are you arguing with? I dont have a problem with any of that. I dont share your view that those brands with better reps should have leeway to create substandard products. I dont care what the camry's prior rep is, Toyota needs to execute to stay where they are and they are not doing that. I'm not going to buy a $30k camry with a poorly built interior based on what Toyota did 5 or 10 years ago. In 2008 the Aura and Malibu are seen a better cars by many in the press and that's what counts for me.

"The Intrigue was still not up to the class standard."
 
according to who BTW? You? WHat a shock. Reviews at that time do not confirm what you are saying at all. The car was praised for interior and exterior styling when it came out. Funny how the memory of domestic haters gets fuzzy after 10 years and suddenly every domestic from that time period was "not up to class standards". Give me a break. Let me guess, your next statement will be "if the Intrigue was so good why did it not save Olds?".

"Intrigue beat camry in C&D comparo in 1998. It came in 1st place in a 3 car test. Dont recall a test in which it finished 8th out of 9 cars. You have a link for that?"
 
So C&D is biased when they pick an import, but credible when they pick domestic? Oh, I see. Here's the Edmunds link:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=43901
 
"Funny how the memory of domestic haters gets fuzzy after 10 years and suddenly every domestic from that time period was "not up to class standards"."
 
"Intrigue doesn't quite match the fit/finish levels served up by competitors like the Maxima and Camry" was a direct quote from MT's long term test of the Olds. Weren't you saying before that the interior of the Olds was a strong point? And by the way, don't label me.
 
"I dont share your view that those brands with better reps should have leeway to create substandard products."
 
"If Toyota cant get interiors 100% right and they are the most profitbale car company in the world I think we can cut the Aura a little slack."
 
I never said that any brand had the right to create substandard products. I stated that it takes time for a reputation to be made. If Toyota's quality suffers, their reputation will follow. Lately Toyota has been called on their interior issues (in this blog) and rightfully so. By the way, it is the job of car reviewers to review cars. Cutting slack is bias.

I thought you were saying the INtrigue finished 8th in a C&D comparo. I'm not surprised it did so poorly in an edmunds comparo. What else would you expect? I can tell you that my parents car is almost 10 years old and doesnt have the issues they mentioned in their test. No speakers falling off, no door trim separating. That was the typical GM car review of edmunds from that era. They said the same stuff about every GM car. The engine was good but the rest of the car sucks.