2008 Honda Accord: Navigating to San Diego Part 1

Its funny reading the Accord intro keeping the Aura intro in mind. I doubt we'll see too many posts along the lines of the trunk lid not having a handle or remote start being useless and stupid for this car. The intro was all hope and optimism, so sure that the Accord would prove the be the greatest car ever. When the Aura was introduced, the tone was "so it won the NA Car of the Year Award. So GM thinks it has a winner and made a good car worthy of praise eh? We'll see about that." I'm sure the Accord will enjoy plenty of open highway driving, tons of posts about the excellent mileage numbers it was getting because of those long, efficient road trips, etc.

I'd think it's more a matter of the Accord has the features that make you appreciate it in day to day driving. Yes, the Aura is a very good car, but it doesn't have a Nav system (even optional, and no, Onstar does not a suitable replacement make), a fancy cylinder deactivation system, or some of the other nifty features that just make life better on a daily basis in the Accord.
 
Thinking back to Karl Brauer's blog on this: http://66.160.188.111/karl/395 , he states, "The Aura is a bit more perplexing to me. A solid entry? Yes. But not a new standard for the class by any means. Basically, after 17 years, Saturn has finally made a competitive sedan. That's good for them, but doesn't really deserve an award IMHO."
I agree, and that was the climate the Aura longterm sedan was introduced into. On the other hand, the Accord, while not the most revolutionary redesign, still manages to embody what a midsized sedan should be.
 
On another hand, I'm surprised that the Accord is more liked than the Altima.

I still don't see why factory nav is so desirable. It is ridiculously expensive (thousands of dollar versus hundreds for a separate, portable aftermarket unit), can't be transfered from car to car, and increases the car's depreciation. With aftermarket units offering nearly all of the same features as factory units, and sometimes more, I just don't see why GM not offering nav is such a big complaint. Its kinda like complaining that an ipod isn't pre-filled with music selected by Apple for which you are charged 10X the itunes rate and sealed off from adding or subtracting content.

I really dislike aftermarket/portable nav systems. To me, they look tacky stuck on the dash or windshield and have to be put away whenever you park, they're clumsy to position, get in the way, and have an ugly and also in-the-way power cord. They take a long time to establish/re-establish satellite reception and lose it more frequently (I live near San Francisco with lots of hills, tall buildings, and sometimes tree-cover). My factory nav never loses track because it is integrated with the stability control to determine the vehicle's direction and speed if it does lose all sat signals. Not to mention the shark-fin antenna doesn't have to look through windshield glass. Aftermarket navs usually have smaller screens that wash out much more easily (my factory screen is deeply recessed, extremely high contrast, huge with a 16:9 aspect ratio, and actively dims based on ambient light sensors so it never washes out). My factory nav system will also lower the stereo volume when it needs to speak and sounds much clearer using the stereo speakers. Even my real-time traffic info works great, which is in fact free because it uses an FM service and not a satellite-based service. You can buy newer updated versions of the map DVD at least once a year that includes new POIs and map changes, just like how you'd have to pay for updates for a portable unit.
   
So, for a consumer like me who loves integration, polish and content (my nav system also incorporates lots of other vehicle control, audio, and climate customization functions), I ordered the factory nav without a second thought. To each his/her own.

I really dont think people understand what this car brings to the table. No its not the sportiest, best looking, most powerful, car in its class. Its the fact that all its attributes combine to make this car do well in every area. The package as a whole....thats what counts.

I agree with stovt001. The Saturn Aura won COTY just like the Camry won MT COTY. Whats the difference? Neither car has significantly revolutionized the midsize sedan and neither car is especially unique in any way. But back to the Accord, I think that the interior gets an A+ for style and function but the exterior really doesn't do it for me at all. I much prefer the Altima's sheet metal. But what I really want to know about the Accord is if the VCM actually makes a difference in fuel economy and if you can feel it at work... I suppose we shall see

I want to know everything.
 
Does the Accord have the Oh Schmidt handles? Yes or no.
Does the Accord have the expensive struts for the trunk or did Honda go cheap. I want to know all and if Honda went cheap I want blog after blog ripping on Honda.
The fancy cylinder deactivation system has existed in GM cars for quite some time. Because Honda came out with it, oh my god go the Honda fans.
Anytime the Honda doesn't get 30 mpg or better, the blogs better indicate how crappy the Honda is.
 
Motor Trend didn't like the interior of the Honda, too busy. Better reflect this on the blogs.
 
In fact this blog is off to a bad start. The driver thinks the Honda is better than the Altima, better remind him it finished 3rd, 3rd.
 
Yessiree no excuses. By the way, just for info Motor Trend chose the Cadillac CTS as car of the year, not the Honda. The Honda finished 3rd behind the Chevy Malibu(aka Saturn Aura) The blogs had better reflect all this all the time or else :O)
 
BTW, did James say he actually thinks the Accord looks better than the Altima? Edmunds, quick get that boy to an eye doctor. Might not want to let him drive while in this state, could be dangerous for your insurance. I have asked plenty of people, and noone likes the looks of the Accord more than the Altima or Aura. The Accord better be charming, cause she is definitely lacking in the looks department.

aurakr,
 
why are you so critical?!
you have a Saturn Aura, we all know that.
James, as well as everyone else, has their own opinions, so don't freak out because the Accord is a better car than the Aura.
(:

carfreak8394
 
I am not freaking out. I just want the same treatment for the Accord as the Aura. The Accord is obviously NOT a better car, or it would have won the car of the year award, or at least finished ahead of the Malibu(Aura) which it did not.
 
I want every little item that is off even slightly brought up in blog. If the Accord doesn't have keyless entry, I want a blog on why Honda cheapened out and didn't provide it. If it has remote start like the Aura, I want a blog stating how stupid that idea is.
If the Accord doesn't offer rear seat audio controls for the rear passengers, I want a blog stating again how Honda CHEAPENED out. If it does offer that, I want a blog stating how stupid the system works if it isn't perfect.
 
I want a blog right now on why Honda is so far behind the times that it doesn't offer a 6 speed automatic like the Aura and the Camry. Why doesn't Honda offer a CVT like the Altima. Why did Honda so obviously cut costs on this car?
 
I want to know if any of the trim doesn't align. I want a huge blog on it. I want to see pictures. I want an explanation if the Accord doesn't average 30 mpg with all its Honda engineering.
 
I want a test done with the Aura, the Altima, the Camry and the Accord under the same conditions, on which gets the best mileage from like Los Angeles to San Diego, etc and back. All at the same time. If the Accord doesn't average at least 5 mpg more than the other cars, I want a huge blog on the inadequacies of Honda engineering. I want no mercy for this car, just like the Aura.

Um.. ok..
I guess that's reasonable...

BTW
 
Before we continue, let me admit somethings. I have always respected Honda's engineering. In the past I often thought of buying an Accord. It is funny, because if you ask me, I often hate Toyota, but respect and admire Honda. The owners of the cars is often a different story, but here we are discussing the cars.
 
But all I really want is the Accord to be subjected to the same derogatory stuff the Aura has been through. I know it is subjective, but I just don't find the new Accord good looking at all. Maybe it will grow on me. I used to hate the Camry, now I guess I have become immune to it.

Personally, I like the looks of the Aura much better than the Camry, but that's subjective as well.
I also think that Saturn is gaining a lot of ground on Toyota, but it still has some catching up to do when it comes to Honda.

Aurakr, listen buddy, and I mean this with all respect. Different people judge cars diferently. The fact that one editor loves the car better than others means little. Comparison tests are a more subjective way of determining which car is best by getting more people to drive it and basing the results on a fixed set of criteria. If Edmunds was biased they wouldn't have the respect they do. Also if you think Honda fans are unfair, try Subaru fans! No matter what Subaru does you'll find someone making excuses why it's still great even if they decontent the car 20% and make it uglier. I haven't driven the new Accord, it's a big car but driving a Vauxhaul (Aura) no way. I just don't care for Vauxhaul and never will. The car reviewers are bound to develop a bias towards their personal tastes. Edmunds has a lot of people driving their cars and when something breaks or is a problem they blog it. There is a reason why Honda, Toyota and BMW are so up in the magazine reviews. The reviewers like driving them. I buy a car based on what *I* like. reviews might help but in the end my butt has to sit in the seat of the car I buy for a good many years. I don't need the approval of any auto magazine reviewer to justify my likes and dislikes. Motor Trend seems to prefer whatever car has the most advertising budget. I've seen cars lose because of small tiny thing when another car was clearly miles ahead. You don't see Edmunds doing that. Enjoy your Aura, I would if I had bought one. :-)

Every time a new Accord comes out, the motoring press tells us that Honda has decided to "sharpen up" the handling and response. Two years later, they all admit that the Accord is "a bit boring." If they can make this thing handle like an '89 Accord LXi, then they'll have my vote. Of course, that would require jettisoning about half a ton of "road hugging weight" and a pile of safety equipment, not to mention swapping the V6 for a two-liter Four and shrinking the whole package to about the size of an '08 Civic.
 
Maybe that's the answer--the Civic is the new Accord, and the Accord is the new Acura Legend.

tiff c
 
Actually the biggest problem I have had with the editors from Edmunds regarding the Aura is that I haven't heard much about how it is driving. I have seen quite a few blogs on the rear seat audio, the remote start, the steering cover, the trunk, but not much on how it road trips, mileage etc.
 
I do own one, and think it is an awesome highway cruiser. The steering cover was legitimate. The remote start was silly, but fairly typical of the criticisms the Aura has faced. The trunk issue falls along the same lines. Actually I think Honda and Toyota should be criticized for cheapening out there.
 
I would like to see more reports on how they think it handles compared to the Altima and Accord. One comparison, fairly close. Let' s see more.
 
What I find even more interesting is that the Ferrari turns 5000 rpm in high gear at 100 mph, the Aura is at 2600 rpm.

I am not freaking out. I just want the same treatment for the Accord as the Aura. The Accord is obviously NOT a better car, or it would have won the car of the year award, or at least finished ahead of the Malibu(Aura) which it did not.
 
Can we nominate this for the single greatest leap of logic displayed in 2007? Wow, so some auto journalists subjectively picked one car over another, so therefore, no other car can subjectively be preferred by one or more people?
 
I want no mercy for this car, just like the Aura.
 
Blogs are written by humans; humans have bias. Sad on a blog - something about opinions - one would have to point this out.

They take a long time to establish/re-establish satellite reception and lose it more frequently (I live near San Francisco with lots of hills, tall buildings, and sometimes tree-cover).
 
If it's a recent navi, it's using the same Sirf Star III GPS chip as car-based units. Those units all re-acquire with exceptional speed compared to gen 2 chips. Heck, we've got consumer handhelds/phones in the office with III's and you can walk out of any building and get a sat in seconds.
 
 My factory nav never loses track because it is integrated with the stability control to determine the vehicle's direction and speed if it does lose all sat signals.
 
Most well-built navi units can run for 30 seconds or more without a signal. Driving through europe with my simple bluetooth tomtom unit I never had any issues...major tunnels throughout France, Italy and Germany dot the toll roads, while the towns feature narrow streets with tall buildings. Was an urban planner involved int he design of places like Marseille, Avignon or Nice?
 
So, for a consumer like me who loves integration, polish and content (my nav system also incorporates lots of other vehicle control, audio, and climate customization functions), I ordered the factory nav without a second thought. To each his/her own.
 
I agree with the last thought. To me, there isn't a bigger waste of $2100 than a factory navi. With less than $200 in parts and software for a car-based system, Navis offer manufacturers extreme profits for doing nothing revolutionary with a very old technology. Navi hasn't changed or improved much in well over a decade; sadly car manufacturers have charged the same premium for navi for about 2 decades. Something is extremely off when you can buy a handheld navi for $150 and car manus really haven't lowered the price $2000 (Honda sells for 1800) since Lexus and Infiniti began offering CD-based systems in the late 80s.
 
Why would that be? Touchscreens? No, a 7 inch touchscreen in bulk is pretty dang cheap. CPU? Nah, a solid state system is also extremely cheap in bulk. Software? Not really, Navteq and TeleAtlas data isn't that pricey - and can be had for free or nearly free depending on your deal with them. SDKs for GPS are available for almost nothing and most car manus have easily recouped investment costs as they probably worked in-house with Navteq or TA. Additionally, the general design hasn't changed much in some time. Sirf Star III is a ludicrously cheap chipset, so that's not a cost block.
 
Where's the extra cost? Well BMW's current e9x uses a central control system on all e9x cars regardless of navi so really it's not that complicated to integrate with an existing cpu/software package that was designed within the past 4-5 years for a digital world. I don't see $2100 or even $500 in cost to BMW for their system.
 
I think BMW and all other car manus are still waiting for the bleeding edge to stop giving blood. Until that time, the manus can take their $1800 profit for every navi unit: it's a great profit margin in an industry where options rarely rate that kind of massive return.

tiff_c, the new Scoobys aren't de-contented 20% and ugly. :o)
 
They're the greatest thing since sliced bread!
 
They're all that and a bag of chips!
 
They're the bees' knees!
 
They're something to write home to mom about!
 
I kid. I kid. :o)

PERSONALLY, I think that the new Accord is ugly as sin, but it will sell in huge volumes because, well, it's an Accord. PERSONALLY, I like the look of the new Camry, especially in SE trim where it looks quite sporty. PERSONALLY, I also like the look of the Aura, especially the top trim level...very classy. PERSONALLY, I like the look of the current generation Mazda6 better than any of these cars, which is one of the reasons that I own one. These blogs are all a matter of personal taste, and no one should get offended by anything that is said in them. Motor Trend might have picked the CTS as its Car of the Year, but if the editors of Road and Track or Automobile magazine did a Car of the Year article comparing the exact same cars, the Accord might have taken first. Or the Malibu. Or the Dodge/Chrysler minivan twins. I'm not afraid to say that the Mazda6 is my favorite sedan out there because that's my opinion -- I love its looks, the engine (even if it will get beat by a new Accord, Aura, or Camry), the features, the transmission, its road manners...everything. Some people out there might agree, and there are many that I'm sure don't agree at all.
Although I have to say that calling the Accord nicer looking than the Altima is just crazy :)
 
But hey, that's just my PERSONAL opinion.

I'd have to agree with the first post by LouisWel- most accords will be LX four cylinders without the fancy features of the EX-L. Yet, all we'll see in this blog is how hightech and feature rich this new Accord has become despite the fact that this model's equipment is not an accurate representation of what most buyers will experience. I'll bet the EX-L will account for 5-8% of all Accords sold.
 
A note on Nav: I think more expensive cars (say near luxury class and up) are more appropriate candidates for factory installed nav. Obviously, if you're buying an expensive car value is not your top priority so what's an extra $2000 for a SatNav system? Affordable cars are a little bit different as far as I'm concerned. If you're buying a new car under ~ $25k, value would seem to take precedence over gadget indulgence so that's where TomTom and Garmin come into play. You can get a fully featured system for a heck of a deal online with no regrets. In my case, the factory offered nav on the Mazda3 is trash and not worth that $1750. I got myself a TomTom Go 510 ($295) and it does everything the Mazda system does. Then again, Mazda's system is so bare bones that it doesn't include any trip computer functions- it's strictly a navigation device

You know, everybody gets so defensive any time a mag says something good about a honda. Maybe, just maybe, they are good cars and there is no vast conspiracy to put down domestics like the Aura. If Honda gets the benifit of the doubt that probably because they have earned it. If you have not owned a Honda recently then you do not understand the quality and engineering that they have is second to none. I used to be a Nissan fan, but after owning an accord for 5 years now, I can see what they are talking about when they say "it drives like a Honda", or "Honda quality". Especially when my five year old accord coupe 5sp drives like the day I bought, and the interior still looks contemporary or better than other brand new cars. If you have never owned a Honda, than stop bashing when you have no idea what you are talking about. Thats not to say that GM, or Ford, or Chrysler dont build some great cars, but don't bash Honda because they have consistanly built great cars, with great quality, and that are always fun to drive. I dont like Toyota, they have cheaped out on their cars, Nissan has never had good build quality, I know, have owned a camry and an altima, and the camry was alright, but horrible to drive, the altima always had problems, the honda is fantastic. So maybe, just maybe, there is no conspiracy or secret memo that says you have to give Honda a free pass, maybe, just a chance here, but maybe they have earned their good reviews.

BDC,
 
We all understand that opinions are part of reviewing cars. Thanks for the reminder though. The point is that every car needs to be scrutinized if one car is going to be nitpicked to death. Based on the glowing review given in the intro I doubt we are going to read many criticisms of the Accord during it's stay. The fact that Edmunds is so enamored with its boxy wannabe 5 series styling is the first sign that objectivity is out the window. Styling is subjective but almost everyone (professionals and regular enthusiasts alike) have agreed the Accord's design is pedestrian at best. I can' t honestly say it looks better than anything in the segment except Galant and the Chrysler cars. The car it resembles most is the Sonata which came out two years ago.
 
As Chavis stated most Accord owners do not get navigation, nor do they get the loaded top trim model and yet thats what IL got as their car because they wanted all the luxurious features. Now we will have to endure countless blog entries about the nav system when that is not what attracts 90% of Accord buyers in the first place. Most buyers are not willing to fork over $30k for a Honda car, period. I hope we get to hear more about the functionality and performance of the car than its nav system. I would also like someone to note the large gaps between the dash and doors like the Det Free Press review I read a few weeks back. If those gaps were on the Aura we would hear all about it on these blogs. If Honda has a rep for building the best with no excuses then that is what it should deliver.
 
tiffc,
 
your dismissal of MTCOY is laughable. I have seen such comments about a dozen times on the internet just since the CTS was announces yesterday. The fact that you are defending Edmunds as totally unbiased and then say MT gives out awards based on ad budgets it kind of contradictory. MT gives out its award to the vehicle that it feels is the most significant in its segment for that year. While history may tell us that some of the cars they picked were less than successful or reliable most of their picks make some sense. I think the Prius, 300, C5 vette, Camry, 300M, Civic, etc. are all good examples of worthy selections.
 
jrm1,
 
Many people would think a split folding seat, trunk struts, Xm radio, manumatic transmission and trip computer are things that make a car easy to use day to day. The Accord either lacks those features altogether or only offers them on the EX-L model (XM radio). Not sure how the Accord has bases covered that are not covered by its competitors. If grab handles are your pet peeve you can get them in plenty of other cars.

pman6,
 
Please give us a break with all the defense of Honda. No one has EVER said Honda makes bad cars. As with so many people who are in denial about the competitiveness of today's cars you seem totally unaware that nothing Honda offers isnt offered by it's competition. Read the MTCOTY details on their site. They said all but one editor felt the Malibu (aka Aura) was more nimble than the 2008 Accord. The Fusion and Altima are also sedans in this class that are every bit as adept on a twisty road as an Accord. People throw around words like "engineering" but often can't tell you what they are referring to with respects to why Honda engineering is so superior. In my experience Hondas tend to have lightweight doors that lack the solidity you find in cars like the Passat or even the Euro-based Aura. I also find that their interiors are very functional but full of hard plastics. I've also found that most of their vehicles seem to have sizable gaps between the dash and door trim- even Acuras.
 
Honda makes a good car, but so does almost everyone else. MT, C&D and others have said the new Accord is more sporting than the Camry but not as sporting as they expect an Accord to be. This is not the opinion of just ONE supposedly off target reviewer- it has been expressed by several different publications and I would tend to believe it since a loaded EX-L V6 is 3600 lbs.

Well I'll go against the majority on this one with regards to the Accord's looks. I was at a local Honda dealership a couple of weeks ago to pick up a part and I saw a new Accord in the show room. It was black (fully loaded of course since it was a show room car) and I thought it was quite attractive. The car manages to look substantial while still retaining an edge of aggressiveness. I liked the front end, I think it looks strong and taut.
 
But I like all of the new sedans. Even the Camry, though it took me a while to come around. I hated it at first. I do think that the Altima is my favorite, and the Aura is very sharp. But the accord is a looker too. Essentially you can't go wrong in this segment anymore. Any one of these cars will likely provide years and years of reliable service. And that's a good thing for all of us as consumers.

I actually like the looks of the Accord. I especially like the interior, which is more important to me if I'm planning on buying one.
aurakr, you make a good general point. There's a year's worth of driving/blogging yet to come. I too look forward to seeing some of your issues addressed.

Wow, there are some long posts already on this blog entry...so I'll keep it short.
 
That thing is hideous. I finally saw one in the wild (as opposed to the auto shows) and I threw up in my mouth a little.

I think the car looks better in person than it does in pics but its a wholly forgettable shape overall. Like it or not you have to consider the competition when evaluating a car's styling. The Accord is somewhat attrative but not more attractive than any of its main competitors. It also has the smallest trunk in class except for the Sebring. Lets see if that ever gets mentioned. A large car (per EPA) with a 14 cu ft trunk is one of the silliest things I have heard of in a while. I've also read the shape of its trunk makes it less usable than that of the Aura.

I just noticed that the last part of the entry tells us we can look forward to a detailed entry about the "tremendous" nav system. This is exactly what I feared, the nav system will take precedence over the car as a whole even though most people wont buy the nav system
 
It is going to be a good year for the Accord indeed.

What it comes down to when writing these blogs is matching experiences with expectations. With the Aura, they started the long term test with the assumption that it was a complete piece of crap wholly undeserving of the NACOTY award. In reality it is actually a pretty good little car, but to make their experiences match their expectations they will look for problems and things to complain about. On the other hand, from the intro to the Accord's Long Term test it is obvious they expect it to be the greatest car ever built, so the blog entries will be selected in such a way to reflect that. These blogs cannot cover every though about the vehicle. It is just impossible to include infinite data, so they must be selective with what they post. The selection will therefore choose whatever opinion they want to have about the car.

does the accord have an alibi? you mean it doesn't have an alibi?
 
Ok, so we established she ain't got no alibi, she ugly, she ugly
U-G-L-Y she ain't got no alibi she ugly.
M, she major ugly, O, she fat and pugly, O my god know the cow says moo.
 
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=3991920
------------------------------------------------------
 
sedan is fugly, coupe is ok. this seems to be a trend for the accord as the past 2-3 accords have been getting progressively worse with it bottoming out with the 2003-2004
 
also, i don't think accord-suspensions are very comfortable

1487-
I own an accord, I know how it drives (I drive a manual), its a great car. Everybody thinks the dash is hard plastic, it is not, it is soft if you actually touch it, instead of just looking at pics in the internet. Compare the interior of an accord (03-07) to any GM product over the last five years, tell me about quality and feel of the controls and buttons, tell about the design and convinience of the features, tell about how everything always works when you want it to. I dont know how people talk about the "doors are not heavy enough..", thats a load of bull, the whole point is not have excessive weight, and still be safe, which honda excels at, just go look at the crash test results of honda vs everybody else. The engine is awesome (I have 4cyl EX 5spd coupe), its smooth, but when you punch it, its fast and roars, I can keep up with pretty much anybody on the road. Honda engines are proof of Honda engineering, and anybody who disputes that is ill informed. The 5sd shifts better than any other car I have ever driven and after 5 years is still awesome. Yeah, I like Hondas, and thats because I have first hand experience with Hondas. By the way, my girllfriend is going to get the new Fit, Base model, with 6 airbags, ABS standard, 38mpg, great verstility and its awesome to drive, for about 13.6k, thats honda engineering. And a 2008 Accord for 30k loaded competes with cars that cost much much more, so plenty of people are going to spend 30k on their Honda. If you dont want the nav, or other "luxury" features, get the LX, which comes with everything you need for 20k. And if you spec out other cars to match the accords features, they usually end up more expensive than the accord, without the quality of Honda.
 
Oh yeah, and its full size in EPA classification because it has so much interior room, its not full size say a Chrysler 300 is full size. Never have I heard of a car being punished because the designers packaged it so well. And you can always put stuff the back seat, but you can never put people in the trunk.

With all this talk regarding the Motor Trend Car of the Year, let's review some past winners...
07 - Camry
02 - Thunderbird
01 - PT Cruiser
97 - Chevy Malibu (5 Series won Import)
95 - Chrysler Cirrus
91 - Chevy Caprice Classic
90 - Lincoln Town Car
 
Car of the Year shouldn't be considered some holy grail. It is only one car-writing staff's opinion on one year's grouping of cars (that doesn't mean I don't think the CTS is deserving, though). Often, the car will be chosen for its potential significance to the market or its parent company, rather than actual quality. After all, take 2002. How do you really compare a Thunderbird to a (2002) M3, Kia Sedona, Nissan Altima, VW Eurovan, Toyota Camry, Subaru Impreza, Acura RSX and Audi A4. After looking at that list, jeez, what were they smoking?

pmman,
 
I have been in the Accord and many other Hondas. To me the plastics are mostly hard but its not a major deal. I just bring it up because so much is made of hard plastics in domestic vehicles. I can assure you my previous car (alero) had more soft touch surfaces inside than the Accord or the Aura. Trust me. As for ergonomics, the idea that Honda is superior in this regard is Urban Legend propogated by those who haven't driven a competing car in 15 years. The ergonomics of modern GM models (and most others) are every bit as good as a Honda. I have fam members with a 1998 Intrigue and if you can't figure out how to operate all of the controls in that car within 30 seconds you shouldn't be driving. The car has a low dash for excellent visibility, legible gauges and a simple radio/HVAC interface.
 
There really isnt need to debate your assertions on the value of a loaded Accord because they are so far removed from reality. If you price out loaded versions of the Accord's key competitors (you can do that here on Edmunds) you will see prices from $28k to about $31k which is right where the Accord sits. The idea that the car is thousands less than its competitors is a joke and proves you have never priced out a Fusion or Sonata. Yes its cheaper than a 3 series or Lexus IS, but those are not its competitors. Guess what, the Malibu, Altima, Camry, etc. are also far cheaper than comparable entry luxury cars.
 
As for trannies, I haven't been in too many late model cars with poorly shifting trannies but anyone who has driven or read up on GM vehicles knows that they have transparent shifting transmissions. I've had two Gm cars and one that was not. The non GM car had the roughest shifts. Smooth shifting isnt a Honda engineering exclusive in 2007. If you check out some of the competition you may be surprised at how competent Honda's foes are these days. Sorry, but nice shifts and a powerful 4 cylinder engine do not make a car an engieering marvel in 2007.
 
dax,
 
If you bother to read MT's COTY issues you will see that any new model that is under a certain price threshold is eligible. This is not a direct comparison to the to other vehicles in the test so it makes sense that a minivan and the M3 could be up for the award at the same time. The newness of the vehicle, not the type of vehicle is what determines eligibility for the award. It's pretty simple actually. The T-bird won because they felt it was the most signfigant car of that type at that price point back in 2002, not because its sportier than the RSX or A4. You are totally misreading the criteria for the winner, its NOT a comparison test between the models.

Yes, I realize that, thank you (I was actually looking at the 02 issue when I wrote it). If you bothered to read what I wrote, I actually said that they judge more on significance than on actual comparative quality, and used the wide variety of vehicles as proof of this. It's quite obvious they don't directly compare apples to coconuts. But in 2002, I'd even question their barometer of significance. Was the Thunderbird really more signifcant than the WRX or M3 or A4? Hindsight is 20/20, but I don't think so considering it died prematurely.
 
However, I just thought of another problem with touting the MTCOTY. So the Malibu placed higher than the Accord and is therefore better, right? But, the Camry placed higher last year than the Aura. Does that make the Camry better? Surely it must if we're to use MT as infalable proof. Hmm.

Wow, I didn't expect such a dustup over the Accord's very first long-term post. Let's give 'em a chance to drive the thing a little, people!
 
Wellll, on second thought -- there *is* one thing that surprised me about James' post, which is that he was bold enough to admit that he finds the Accord good-looking! Come on man, this thing is the most jumbled mess of styling cues I've seen since the Sebring.
 
And WHY did you have to live up to the automotive press stereotype of testing the highest-contented model possible, when the vast majority of buyers will choose a lesser model?! We know you have a cool job, but don't rub it in!

It's a cool job to drive a loaded Accord? Don't get me wrong, playing with an GT2 is incredible. Flying to Italy for a release of a new RS6 sounds astounding. But driving an Accord with navi?

dax,
 
still missing the point. They felt the camry was a more significant midsize entry than the Aura last year. They do not feel the Accord is better than the Malibu however. There is no contradiction at all. On top of that they may actually find the Malibu to be better than both cars and we will see if they compare all three. Taken as a complete lineup with the hybrid its not hard to see why they thought the Camry was more significant than the Aura. That doesnt mean that the Camry XLE or SE would necessarily beat the Aura/Malibu in a direct comparion.
 
Considering the Thunderbird's styling and the lack of luxury convertibles in that price range I would say it was more significant than the A4 or WRX. At the time I didn't see anything too noteworthy about either car.

Seeing as I'm not the one who chooses which cars we buy/receive and how they are equipped, I'm not exactly the authority on the issue. However, allow me to assert two points on the "why did you idiots get a fully loaded Accord" question.
 
1) More features equals more stuff to blog about (and to play with whilst stuck in traffic). The best example of this is our Scion. If we were buying a vehicle for ourselves as individuals, there's a good chance the underdash lights, $2,000 nav system, sill lights and fancy shift knob would be left at the dealership. But they offer them, and it makes for potential blog stories.
2) The Altima was equipped almost identically. The Aura is also fully-loaded. This blog format doesn't lend itself for a strict comparison, but it's useful when they are comparitively equipped.
 
And sorry, I like the new Accord's styling. Not as much as the Malibu mind you, but I like it. So there. Mind you, I also lobbied for our aformentioned Scion's color, so...

James makes good points, and I nominate Bluedotguy for post of the week. We really do need to make that an official award.

Accord isnt ugly as I stated, but its behind the styling curve. Not that it ever was a stunning car in the past. The Accord shows Honda lack of creativity when it comes to styling. Another generic Japanese sedan styling wise.

Damn! This sure has turned out to be one hell of a post! I understand where Aurakr is coming from, but he just went about it in the least mature way possible. I do agree that the Accord should be treated just like the Aura, in that the editors should be honest and subjective when dealing with the Accord. There really are some things about the Aura that are a bit disappointing, but over all, I think it's a nice car, and I'm sure one of the editors out there has some positive things to say about it, and I'm sure there is an editor at Edmunds who things the exterior styling of the Accord sucks. I'm sure the truth will all come out, especially dealing with my favorite editors, Erin, Donna, Kelly, and Brian. They always seem to tell it straight and fair. I look forward to reading future posts about the Accord.

I think having everything in the car allows the Edmunds guys to evaluate the total package better. If they say that this feature isn't worth the cost after a year then maybe I'll find that feature uselss too. I am an off roader type so I could care less about midsize sedans, except that some of those features are also found in other vehicles. So if a particular feature on a car is the same as another feature on the same brand like say the upgraded stereo unit and speakers are really good I might opt for it even though I don't give a rats hind end about how the Accord drives. It can't cross a cornfield with 6 inches of snow on it.

I can't remember any other blog post with so many comments.
 
This is going to be an interesting long term car test!!!!!
 
Thanks for the long term test. I might buy one by the oned of the year.

"It's a cool job to drive a loaded Accord? Don't get me wrong, playing with an GT2 is incredible. Flying to Italy for a release of a new RS6 sounds astounding. But driving an Accord with navi?"
 
Blueguy: If, like many people out there, your daily driver is a beater '89 Escort or whatever, then YES it be would cool to get paid to drive a loaded Accord V6...ya snob!
 
I've grown to despise automotive magazines for taking up more and more space with articles like "We get some track time with our Murcielago!" I'm an enthusiast for cars that are actually attainable to me -- which is why I appreciate outlets like the Edmunds long-term blog.
 
James: I understand that having a loaded Accord makes it easier to compare to your loaded Altima, Camry, Aura, etc. But eventually, you (not YOU, but the automotive press) will have to rip-off the band-aid and actually test a volume model.

langlebl
 
You may feel I went about it in the least mature way possible, but in fact it was the only way to make sure the Accord was and is treated in the exact same manner as the Aura. I still await a long term report on the Aura regarding a long drive. How is that possible? Allready the Accord got to go to San Diego from Los Angeles, where are they driving the Aura? Oh yeah, they aren't, their still complaining about the trunk, the rear seat audio, the remote start, etc.
 
I hear about how well the Altima drives, nothing about the Aura.
 
Stovt001 nailed it best. Not much more to say, although like my wife says, that rarely stops me :O)

If you are complaining about the lack of posts for the Aura, imagine how I feel as the owner of an '08 Lancer GTS - I get one post in a blue moon, usually somehow making fun of the spoiler!
 
But in all honesty, thats the whole purpose of a blog like this! People call something a bias, but I say its because they honestly like the car. Just because someone loves the Aura doesn't mean that Edmunds has to as well. I also find it ironic that there are posts with such obvious bias, asking a blog editor NOT to be biased. Whats wrong with the comment about finger marks on the chrome? A year long test covers every issue with a car, not just the drive. You can't post for a year about how nice or not nice it feels driving down the road. Free speech is a wonderful thing, lol.
 
Oh and for the record, I think the Accord is hideous.

Oh dear, here we go...
 
Jeez, all of that & no one commented on the "nipped the Altima" phrase. That's a mighty strong phrase, James, especially since it took you so long to say that about the Altima! I see, though, why you're saying it.

Misterfusion,
 
I actually agree that mags and Edmunds spend far too much time and space on cars regular people will never buy. The Lambo articles and the stuff about AMGs are designed to appeal to the little boy in readers but I do agree the focus and the articles should mostly settle on real-world cars. The accord seems real-world.
 
That said, his job is cool because he gets flown around the world to drive exotic cars. His job loses a lot of glamor if he's driving Kias and GMs everyday but at least then they're looking at cars that are realistic for most of us.

<<Yet, all we'll see in this blog is how hightech and feature rich this new Accord has become despite the fact that this model's equipment is not an accurate representation of what most buyers will experience.>>
 
The same was said with the odd option list for the Tundra.
 
Would you rather have cars all be the same without the choice of personalization to your own needs?
 
As to Edmunds always having a non-high volume car -- if i remember right, the Camry they jut got done with was an LE model, with cloth seats no less!.
 
Then there was the Miata, the Sedona, the Sonata and the Altima isn't the top-of-the-line either, just loaded up for it's model.

Besides, which automotive magazine has a car from the 80's in their long term fleet?
 
Answer: None

Aurakr maybe you don't hear about how well the Aura drives because it doesn't. And maybe it hasn't gone on a long drive because no one wants to drive it for a long time.

I agree with Benson. Maybe there aren't posts about how the Aura drives because it doesn't do so. Maybe no one wants to drive it. The Lexus hybrid is a very nice car, but it has a post maybe once every two weeks (and no posts for a couple months before that). The Accord doesn't have remote start, and it probably doesn't have the same trunk setup as the Aura, so Edmunds won't talk about these things. Wait until there are more blogs before you rip on the Accord and the editors....the Accord isn't perfect. Then again, neither is the Aura.
 
Don't judge when you can't handle the judgement.

zoomzoom22,
 
I couldn't have said it any better myself.

altimadude00, the Altima SE is the top of the line.
The SE was the top of the line for the last gen too.
Loaded, the SE has everything the SL has, plus larger wheels, sports suspension, stabilizer bars, and costs more than the SL.

zoomzoom22, carfreak8394, benson2175,
 
you guys are crazy if you think the editors of Edmunds would not be ripping the Aura apart if they didn't like the way it drives. Then again, how can we know for sure, they never seem to drive it. Just complain about this, about that. Face it, we have seen the future, and for the editors, the Accord is wonderful, amazing, perfect, after all it is a Honda.
 
Give me the cars and I guarantee I would have blogs about the short drives, the long drives, and everything in between.
 
Maybe folks, this may come as a surprise, automobile makers other than Honda, BMW and Toyota, are also able to build enjoyable driving cars. In addition, just maybe, Honda might have missed the bullseye on the Accord.
 
I also guarantee that I could find a bunch of things wrong with the Accord, Altima, Camry, whatever you name it if I wanted too. Wouldn't take long either. Give me ten minutes in a car, I can find lots of problems. I had ideas for improvements for the Aura when it first came out. Some have been implemented, others are hopefully still pending.
 
As stated before, I have been fortunate to drive many, many different makes and models of vehicles in my line of work. Guess what, for the most part, the foreign vehicles were overrated, the domestics, underrated. That doesn't mean there wasn't pieces of garbage from the domestics, yes, and some foreign vehicles were very good, but overall and through time, the average vehicle has become so good the line is blurring. Honda at one time stood out, lately however, either they have fallen back or the competition has gotten better.

"I also guarantee that I could find a bunch of things wrong with the Accord, Altima, Camry, whatever you name it if I wanted too."
 
What a great attitude.

dougtheeng
 
My attitude is great. I am just pointing out that I could do exactly to any car what the editors have done for the most part to the Aura. It really isn't that difficult to do. After all, they haven't built the perfect car yet.
 
I really am curious to see what kind of mileage benefit the Accord has, if any, with the cylinder deactivation system. We already know it has cost the Accord some midrange torque, which has affected its acceleration versus the Aura, Altima and Camry. Is the mileage benefit worth the cost or not?
 
I will be following this blog as I do the Aura one. Now that Edmunds has all the players, it is time to play. Take them on some long trips, work them out, see what you got. Should be very interesting.
 
Everyone have a Happy Thanksgiving.

aurakr,
 
How can you make such assumptions when you obviously have no idea what we are saying? I personally know that there are automakers out there that make good cars other than the ones you mentioned -- that's why I drive a Mazda and the car I'd love to own more than almost every other is a Z06. Also, I said, and carfreak agreed with me, that the Accord isn't perfect. The people of Honda aren't putting a gun to the editor's head and saying "Nothing but praise!!"; the Accord is just a good car, and it always has been. They'll find things wrong with it, like the new, messier dashboard layout, for instance. And I guarantee that not every editor will like the new Accord's styling. Don't ask for a reduction of bias when you are obviously biased in this matter; that, or learn to swallow your own medicine.

aurakr, I find the blogs about Aura's small problems are pretty reasonable. Am I going to be concerned if the steering column cover fell off in my Civic? Heck yeah. Fingerprints on the trunk lid? Most likely it would bug me since I have yet to encounter a car with such issue. Lack of grab handles on the ceiling? Nothing major but it would be nice to have and pretty much an expected feature since most other cars have them. Coincidentally, I was complementing to my brother on his Lexus that the ceiling grab handles retracts in such a fluid, damped motion. These blogs are not just going against the Aura though, a very recent blog entry focused on the Honda Fit having only one vanity mirror. And there were complaints over the LT Accord Hybrid.

aurakr just wants to bash the accord when it just got into the long term fleet, just so that the aura looks better in comparision. I'm sorry if the accord doesnt have features like a steering column cover that falls off, or a windshield that is not attached properly, or that Honda designers felt that being able to control all the features of the car with the nav screen or with a button if you want, oh my god, I might have to learn some buttons, jeez. Dont buy Honda, thats your business, but dont bash it when you dont know what you are talking about. Plus its a well known fact that Honda has always had one the best Nav interfaces on the market at any price.

Actually I am not biased. I have previously stated that in the past I considered purchasing Accords.
 
The point I have been trying to make is that almost every blog about the Aura has focused on, for the most part, petty issues. The steering cover issue was legitimate, never disputed that.
 
The trunk issue can be covered both ways. You guys harp about the fingerprints, not an issue on my car. I am awaiting the editors to harp on how cheap Honda was for not putting the struts on the new Accord. After all, they started with a clean sheet. Honda should have been able to offer the benefits of the struts. I doubt very much we will hear anything about that at all.
 
Remember the rear seat audio complaints by the editors? Does the Accord even offer that? If not, how long will we wait to hear how Honda cheapened out for not offering that? Most likely, we won't hear anything. The editors may not personally like how the rear seat audio works, but I have yet to hear any complaints from my kids, who use it everytime in the car. The point being, offering a system which, while not perfect, is still BETTER than not offering one at all.
 
Remember the remote start rant by the editors? Are we seeing a pattern here? Nothing to do about how the car drives, nothing.
 
The crack about James and him liking the Accord's styling was a joke. However, I feel he will most likely be in the minority in his opinion. That doesn't mean that Honda won't sell a bunch, they will.
 
The biggest thing to remember, is that from day one the editors have had a view point that the Aura did not deserve the NACOTY. Every blog has followed from that and followed that view point.
 
It must really irk then, that the new Malibu(Aura) scored higher than the new Accord with Motor Trend. Don't worry guys, for all the Honda Accord fans, you can always count of Honda and Driver to figure out a way to make sure the Accord comes out first in any comparison.

this is almost getting as heated as whos on who's top 8 on myspace.

Its kinda like how they couldn't write any praise about the Silverado without first qualifying that by pointing out that it didn't get nearly as high fuel economy as the fit and was much harder to park and drive in the city than the subcompacts too.
 
This isn't entirely bias against GM cars. There have been plenty of vehicles that just can't win a break on this blog. However, even many of the most reviled ones (like the Compass) have plenty of posts about how they drive and actual concerns that matter to real consumers. Yes the steering cover was legitimate, but did we see 5 blog posts about the time the Azera's mirror fell off? No, it was just one post about the issue. I'd say mirrors falling off are at least just as bad as steering wheel covers popping up. But gripes like the fingerprints on the chrome strip- if you don't want finger prints there, then just move your hand so that you close the lid by touching another part of it. It isn't that hard. Every normal consumer would be smart enough to do that. So far the only posts about the Aura that told us anything of real significance were the canyon runs with the other mid-sizers (great set of posts!), the steering wheel cover issue (the first time) and the one about the rear seat audio controls, not because they nitpicked it for stupid reasons, but because I was surprised to learn the Aura offered it, as the competition certainly doesn't. With the Accord, I'm sure there is a handle missing in some obscure location, but we rightfully won't hear about that, since it is a non-issue. It can probably get fingerprints in some places if someone touches it. Again, non issue, just don't touch the chrome, and we won't hear about it. You'd think by now the editors would be more careful to not give away their pre-judgments in the introduction, and that they would humor the people who want a fair shot for the Aura by putting in a post with real substance once in a while, but they haven't, and that is truly sad.

Scoring higher in Motor Trend car of the year does not necessarily mean its the better car. Significance scores a lot of points. Notice how MT make repeated statements on how the new Malibu is a much better car then the last gen version. In their last sentence, they said "Now a genuine alternative to the Camry." They did not say its a better car than the Camry, so that verdict we have to wait until they have a head to head family sedan comparison. But they did say the Malibu is a competent entry into the midsize sedan market and they applaud on GM for making big efforts in redesigning the 3rd gen version. The Malibu will also come out with a hybrid version but not the Accord, and MT take note of things like that.
 
Honestly, I do not care if the trunk lid has struts or gooseneck. Gooseneck look a little bit cheaper but works great, light and easy to open and close. Not sure if it is a universal issue with struts trunk lid, but I used my friend's Galant trunklid and it opens and close with non-linear force and takes a hearty slam to shut it.
 
Most cars don't come with rear seat audio, so no one really cares if the Accord does not come with it. If it was the ceiling grab handle, thats different because most cars come with it. Same with the remote start.
 
Not sure if there were any blogs about the Aura's drive, but one or two blogs is enough about the drive, especially if it is a family sedan and Edmund's garage has more engaging cars like the Fit, Mini Cooper, Ferrari. To me it seems hard for the editors to blog about the Aura's drive since the ride quality is not as plush as the Azera, mileage not as good nor bad as the Fit or Q7 or Tahoe, cargo capacity not as big as the Enclave or Sedona, doesnt drive as bad as the Compass, or compare to the Rondo's shift smoothness because that Kia a much lower priced car.

That's the Rondo's shift smoothocity....
 
Ok....I really need to pull my head out of the Rondoisms. Where's the left over bread pudding?

I agree with everything you said, except...
 
1) "Nimble" would be the last phrase I would use to describe the Accord. It's competent, capable, and stays on the safe side of ponderous. Nimble, it aint. Edmunds' own tests show a HUGE advantage to the Altima in slalom speed (67.0 to 61.8) and an equally big difference in subjective handling (EXCELLENT versus AVERAGE). You want to drive a nimble Honda product, go log some seat time in a TSX.
 
2) I find it a car that is easy to like, but nearly impossible to love. Lots of Honda goodness, but zero personality and no more fun to drive than a Sonata. I find the 5-speed auto to be smooth-shifting, but a bit reluctant to downshift. Not exactly a playful companion to the otherwise excellent motor. Just look what the Accord Coupe can do when freed of the slushbox. Oh, and 5 speeds are decidedly retro for an all-new vehicle that claims to set a new class standard.
 
3) It's better looking that he Altima in the same way that Whoopie Goldberg is better looking than Halley Berry.
 
4) It's not quite as fun to drive as the Altima in the same way that root canal is not quite as fun as a date with Halley Berry.
 
Okay - I need to get Halley Berry of my brain - I admit it.
 
Jaeger

Dalaw, non-linear force for struts isn't universal. My Cobalt's trunk lid has pretty much the same resistance all the way down, with minor changes. It can't just be dropped down as with goose-neck hinges, but it doesn't require very much force to close at all. I've been able to open and shut it with both my arms loaded, so I would say that indicates a pretty good strut set-up. The main advantage of struts over goose-neck hinges is that struts do not take up cargo space. Goose-neck hinges move into the cargo area when the trunk is shut, taking up space. With my Cobalt I can fill in every last bit of space in the trunk and shut the lid no problem. The space savings are considerable, so I regard it as a very desirable feature.

jaeger -
"You want to drive a nimble Honda product, go log some seat time in a TSX."
 
Actually, I used to own one. And really, I said "it maintains a feeling of nimbleness" which in my estimation isn't exactly the same thing as "nimble." Tony Gwynn maintained a feeling of nimbleness despite his size, but I wouldn't exactly call him nimble in comparison to a Ricky Henderson. I said the Altima was more fun to drive, so I'm still in agreement with the party line.
 
I agree about the transmission and I'm sure you'll see a few posts about it. To me, five speeds isn't the problem as much as the reluctance to downshift and the lack of a manual override.
 
Oh, and it's Halle Berry. And Whoopi for that matter, too.

jriz
 
That was well put about Tony Gwynn and Ricky Henderson. The more amazing thing about Tony was that he was drafted by the NBA as well as MLB. Sometimes looks are deceiving. Stupid Padres, they should have signed Torii Hunter. They are so cheap.
 
Regarding the Accord and Honda, I am beginning to wonder about their engineering expertise. The Accord, a brand new vehicle, comes out with only a 5 speed automatic without manual override. No struts, only the old style goose hinges, and what about the Acura suv? A 2.3 turbocharged engine that gets far worse mileage than a V6? What is wrong at Honda?
 
The 2.3 with Honda and Driver only got 13 mpg, that is Suburban territory without the good looks or utility. Sometime next year, Edmunds should trade the Tahoe for a Tahoe hybrid. That would be an excellent long term test. Come on guys do it, you already know what kind of mileage the Tahoe gets, now let's test the two-mode.

Did you guys know that "San Diego" is German for a whale's vagina? I bet you didn't.

aurakr;
 
the concept of what a defines a good looking car is unique to each and every person; for the life of ME i couldn't EVER imagine calling any gm suv better looking than the rdx.
 
the RDX by the way, is a performance suv, so no apologies be made for its mileage (which in all tests i have ever read, has the tester driving it hard.) nothing is wrong at honda, they put out a sporty suv that does nothing but try to be sporty. its better than the concept of a 'hybrid' land whale.
 
its hilarious to see how many people love to hate the accord on such stupid stuff. trunk hinges? come on are you guys fifteen?

I don't think you have to worry about Honda's engineering expertise Aurakr. I'm sure they're not; maybe you've read about they're fuel cell car that isn't some kind of weird prototype or pipe dream (coughVoltcough). Plus maybe you're aware when driven aggressively a cars mpg can drop significantly, Car and Driver is pretty notorious for driving they're cars hard. So you can't compare the RDX's mileage during C&D testing to Suburban EPA testing. You'd have to drive the Suburban as hard but I suspect the horse and buggy suspension on the Suburban wouldn't let you and you'd roll over.

jriz - I can buy that qualified / comparative "feeling of nimbleness" deal - but I have to say that still isn't an adjective that ever entered my mind when driving either the 4 or 6 cylinder Accord Sedans (I have not driven the Coupe).
  
I look forward to hearing about the transmission - I am surprised that there has been very little critical commentary in the automotive press about it. 5 speeds may not be the problem, per se, but there must be some reason why most of the competition has gone to 6. I can think of a few.
  
Jaeger
  
PS - Thanks for the celebrity spelling corrections. :-)
 
PPS - To the guy who said "It's not full size the way the Chrysler 300 is full size." - Actually, it's closer in dimensions to the Chrysler 300 (only 2.5" separate them) than it is to Altima and Camry.

benson;
 
exactly what i was trying to say.
 
the funny thing is, that everyone here, regardless if its to post a 'i hate the accord' type of thing, or if its to post a 'honda is the best thing EVER' sort of thing, the mere fact that this blog is garnering such attention is a testament to how important the honda accord is. ;)

eldiano
 
performance suv, now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. Face it, Honda made a mistake by trying to put a 2.3 liter turbocharged engine into such a heavy vehicle. Yes the engine makes good power, but not in the real world. By the way, Car and Driver drives all their cars the same way, and when a 4 cylinder drops into V8 territory, it rings alarm bells. By the way the RDX is probably the 2nd uglies car Honda/Acura makes. 1) Ridgeline, 2) RDX, 3) Accord. You can hate all you want on the Tahoe, it still is a better vehicle for what SUVs are used for than the RDX. The fact that it gets better mileage overall must kill the Honda/Acura fanatics.
 
Benson2175
 
Quick question? Who has a fuel cell vehicle with the greatest range? Hint, it's not Honda, or Toyota. Oh yeah, it's GM with the 3rd generation Equinox. And it is in an SUV package. Amazing, huh. Oh yeah, you probably don't like to read about anything the domestics are doing.
 
This kind of response from the Honda fanatics is funny. They are the same people who criticized domestics for years for only offering 4 speed automatics, deservedly so. Now that GM has upped the ante, they really come out on the defensive. By the way only a 5 speed automatic and no manual override. My god, what is this, 2004? If Honda had put the struts in the Accord, you can be sure they would be clamoring about the engineering taking place.

"Quick question? Who has a fuel cell vehicle with the greatest range? Hint, it's not Honda, or Toyota. Oh yeah, it's GM with the 3rd generation Equinox. And it is in an SUV package. Amazing, huh. Oh yeah, you probably don't like to read about anything the domestics are doing."
  
Aurakr, where are you getting your numbers? The FCX Clarity, which is actually going on sale to the SoCal public to lease in summer 2008, has a published range of 270 miles and an estimated gasoline-powered equivalent of 68 mpg. The Equinox has a published range of 200 miles and achieves an estimated 39 mpg equivalent. The stack weight of the FCX is 150 lbs compared to the previous gen's 450 lbs, whereas the fuel-cell Equinox overall weighs about 500 lbs more than a conventional one. And finally, the Equinox's stack is only expected to last for 50,000 miles, whereas the previous FCX's was pegged at 125,000 miles. I fail to see how much more "amazing" the fuel cell Equinox is than the FCX.
 
Edit: The FCX's minimum operating temperature is -22F, the Equinox's is +13F. The FCX's powertrain outputs 100kW of power and is the size of a Civic hybrid powertrain, versus the Equinox's 94kW peak from a powertrain the size of a GM truck inline-6 engine. So the FCX has a lighter, more compact, more fuel efficient, more powerful powertrain that gets better range and has a stack that lasts over twice as long as the Equinox's. The fuel cell Equinox also went on a diet (seats, body panels, etc) to achieve its 500 lb weight increase.
 
There's also Honda's Home Energy Station (HES) that converts natural gas to hydrogen for refueling the FCX at home. It stores excess hydrogen that it can convert to electricity to help power your house.
 
Yeah, GM is waaaaay ahead of Honda in hydrogen fuel cell technology.

Check your facts guy; Equinox range 150miles, Clarity 270. Also the Equinox is not a production vehicle and limited to 100 units which have to be returned after three months. Not amazing at all.

May 16, 2007, guys you might want to check your facts.
 
The GM Sequel went 304 miles on one tank, with about 1/4 left over.
 
Well over the Honda Clarity's range. By the way, Honda says they will be available next year, we will see.
 
Congratulations, you got one thing right, this was the Sequel, not the Equinox. By the way, the Equinox is first generation, the Sequel third generation. Either way, GM still outdoes the Clarity with a SUV, all the more amazing.

Yeah, I really want to lease a clarity with payments higher than my loan (to actually buy my car) plus monthly gas expense even if gas hit $6 a gallon. I know fuel cells are expensive, but I hardly consider $600 lease payments putting fuel cells in the hands of the common man.
 
Oh and Benson A123 systems, which is supplying the batteries for the Volt, is really legit. Their battery systems are already powering ridiculously fast bikes (killacycle). But I love the pipe dream reference. I picture some crotchety old man who refuses to accept all change. I'm gonna be very happy if we're both on this board in a few years. I'll remember it.

The FCX Clarity has gone 350 miles on one tank, however the published rating averages many factors to give a real-world figure of 270 over its life. How fantastic that the Sequel managed less than that. Out of everything I mentioned above, range is the biggest cop-out comparison. A Suburban has better range than a Fit because IT HAS A MUCH BIGGER GAS TANK. Similarly, a Boeing 747-400 has a better range than an Airbus A320. So if you put in a much bigger/higher pressure hydrogen tank, you can get more range while at the same time taking up more space. Wow, amazing.
  
And how exactly is it "amazing" that GM used an SUV to package their hydrogen system? Because the system is so much larger and heavier that there wasn't an existing car platform that could effectively package it? Did you read my edit of the powertrain size comparison? That's nothing to brag about at all.

"the mere fact that this blog is garnering such attention is a testament to how important the honda accord is. ;)"
   
Seems to me like the majority of posts have nothing at all to do with the new Accord. ;-)
   
But no-one is likely to dispute that it is a significant vehicle.
   
Jaeger

bimmerjay
 
Two things rate in the favor of the Equinox/Sequel over the Clarity. The Clarity is an $85000 purpose built car, no one is spending that much to save fuel. Second, the fact that the Equinox is getting the equivalent of 40 mpg with the first generation fuel cell is that it is an SUV getting 40 mpg right now. Not a purpose built car no one can afford. Remember now the Sequel is third generation, and the range it went was in the real world, here in the US with journalists driving it. Stoplights, freeways, AC on max, 80 mph + cruising. Real world with 300 + miles. Even Toyota is using the Highlander for their testing, much cheaper for the R&D.
 
In addition, the Equinox still has more space than the Clarity. The Clarity is gorgeous, too bad Honda didn't make the current Accord look like that.

one last thing
 
The range on the Clarity was given by Honda using the old 2007 epa estimates. So we take away 8-12 % right off the bat, using the new 2008 epa estimates.
 
Remember the Sequel did its trips in the real world, no estimating by GM. 300 + miles, with about 40 miles left over. Real people driving, not estimates.
 
As I have stated before, hybrids, diesels, fuel cells, the future is looking good for the automobile.
 
BTW Bimmerjay, does it bother you that BMW signed on with GM to develop hybrids, not Toyota or Honda? Maybe you might want to consider that when attacking GM's engineering prowess. Remember, BMW looked at all the hybrids designs out there, and chose GMs. Very interesting. So did Mercedes, no longer Daimler Chrysler.

I like the Clarity, my fiancee doesn't. It kinda looks like a Prius-Civic love child, but somehow it works. And I agree with bimmerjay, range isn't the miracle metric to compare everything by, because a larger fuel tank can do the same thing to that metric as better efficiency. Whenever range figures are posted here, people mistake them to mean things they clearly don't. I won't argue that range is an important factor, especially if you live in remote areas with few gas stations or go on long road trips. However, fuel range alone cannot really be used to comment on efficiency.
 
Back to the Accord:
 
I think I'm really the odd one out on the Accord's styling. I used to like it, now I'm not such a fan. I really don't fit into either of the "never liked it" or "started out not liking it, but its growing on me" camps

Guy; the Sequel is a concept car. There's two of them and they cost 1mil each. A production version won't be ready (and doesn't have the go ahead yet) till 2011. You're comparing apples to fairy dust here and the Clarity is still one hell of an apple.
 
Back to the Accord. What's with Honda copying Audi rear ends? This Accord rear really reminds me of the A6 and some of the recent Acura SUVs have dead ringer rears to the Q7. I think the Accord is a handsome classy car but I wish they went a bit more original on that rear. Though not as original as the Malibu; the rear wrecks what's otherwise a real nice design. Any thoughts? That aren't from crazed GM fanatics.

I don't find the Accord ugly in the least. But I do find it derivative and bland. I see a lot of Sonata and a failed attempt at a BMW 5-Series. Honda has shown they can do their own thing - and do it well - with the current Civic. With the Accord, they seem to be doing everyone else's thing - and not particularly well.
  
Contrast the blocky blandness of the Accord with, say, the sexy new Euro-spec Mazda 6.
  
Even those that like the look of the new Accord - can you honestly say that it is a design you find the least bit exciting? I know that there is a huge element of subjectivity at play - we like what we like and all that - but as the latest entry in the mid-size segment, would anybody call it the best looking? Is there any reason at all that a mid-size family sedan can't pack even a little visual sizzle?
  
Jaeger

Well I like the styling of the Accord a lot, but I think the Aura and Altima are a little better looking;
i'm not too sure about who is " the class leader" when it comes to best looking though...

Ok, aurakr, you got the last word.
 
The fact is, every automaker is in the race to pioneer new technologies and be at the forefront of fuel cell (and otherwise) technology. GM, Toyota, and Honda will all be at the top because they are such big companies...comparing them now isn't relevant at all because nothing like this is available to the public yet at an affordable price. Just like you take GM's side, many people prefer Honda or Toyota, so don't be so defensive. In essence, the two are equals.

just drove by an accord 2008 sedan . I was severally let down. imho the pics make it look better. in real life it looked very cheap. almost kia like. wont even bother looking at it any more

zoomzoom22
 
I agree with you. I just wish the editors at Edmunds would not have come out with the attitude that the Aura didn't deserve NACOTY. In all truthfulness, I have always liked Honda. The Accord is a fine sedan, albeit not too my taste exterior wise. I really am curious to see what kind of mileage improvement the cylinder deactivation nets. I actually wish the Aura had it. If the V8 and the 3.9 can have it, the 3.6 deserves it too.
 
What saddens me is that there are so, so many people who relish the thought of the domestic industry doing poorly. I will never understand those people. I can guarantee the Japanese and the Germans would not wish their domestic manufacturers to go out of business.
 
See what angers me the most, is that I am able to say the Accord is a fine sedan. But many others are not willing to say that about the Aura. Unfortunately, it appears some of those are some of the editors.

aurakr, there's little logic in saying, "if I approve of every car, at least for courtesy, then other people should also approve of every car, at least for courtesy."
 
It's ok for you to not like certain cars and express it, and it's ok for others to not like certain cars and express it.
I for one will not accept insane censorship of the sort suggested.
 
There are certain people here that do not like the Aura, and you should accept that it's ok for other people to not like your car, as long as you like it yourself. You don't need to seek approval from others to like your own car.
 
Otherwise we would all be driving Toyota Corollas, because the Toyota Corolla is the bestest car in the universe ever made. Just ask any Toyota Corolla driver.
The bestest car ever. Toyota Corolla.

hey aurakr - how would you feel if you clicked on an Aura blog only to find half the posts being about the Accord?
 
It's safe to say we have your point - in your view, the editors didn't / don't give the Aura a fair shake. Fine - you're entitled to your viewpoint. And you have expressed it. Several times. Some may agree with you, others not, but repeating it several more times likely won't tip the balance one way or the other. Just a suggestion.
 
Jaeger

I think the point here is that the Accord isn't an extremely compelling car, but the editors are preemptively treating it like God's gift to the automotive world. As noted, the transmission isn't great. It was interesting to hear the biggest complaint wasn't having only 5 speeds, but the shift quality. Good, useful observation. The styling is generally considered to be underwhelming at best. Some say it copies others, some say it is awkwardly self conscious, but either way the styling isn't exactly going to get the masses out to buy the car. Most opinions I've read consider the interior too busy. A real shame considering the Fit was rightfully praised in this blog for its wonderfully intuitive and clean interior. The size isn't so compelling. Anyone can make a car bigger, and everyone, sadly, does. I think Aurakr is right, that the real feature of the accord is the cylinder deactivation, and the big question is how much it really helps fuel economy in the real world. So what is it about this car that makes it so great? Reliability is probably a factor, since Honda hasn't gone down the same road as Toyota in completely disregarding reliability and build quality. Fuel economy, due to the 3-4-6 engine, might be another. The intro seemed to sum up that this was the perfect car and nothing would likely ever be found wrong with it, so lets go back to complaining about how the Aura's windows show fingerprints if you shut the door by placing your hand on the window. I think this long term test is already wrapped up.

Some very interesting observations from MT on the new Accord from their COTY comparison:
  
Not so fast, pen pals, this new Accord lost fair 'n' square. For starters, this eighth edition strays a bit from what we perceive as the Accord's essential mission. Yes, you can now perform calisthenics in the back seat, but from the left front seat the car is less sporting and fun on the road. Accords always managed to shrink when you kicked the passengers out and attacked a twisty road. This new one corners without leaning much, but always feels big and a bit soft. Mushy, howling tires are part of the problem and are largely to blame for our Accord EX-L's middling braking and handling numbers. Stops from 60 mph in 122 feet trailed the Chevy Malibu'ss by nine. Figure-eight laps were a half-second off the Malibu's pace, too, though subjectively, tester Kim Reynolds preferred the Honda's deportment in that test.
  
Then there's the issue of the styling, which polarizes staffers into those who hate it and those who expect it to grow on them. Even the interior drew harsh criticism for its overly buttony center stack and cold appearance. When the votes were tallied, the Accord finished high, but not on top."
  
On the Variable Cylinder Management - it will be intersting indeed to see how the Accord Coupe - with the same motor but without VCM and paired to a 6 speed manual - compares in real-world fuel mileage to the VCM 5-speeed auto Sedan. If the latter pulls off significantly better numbers, then hats off to Honda for incorporating (not inventing) a useful bit of technology.
  
If not, we can place it on the gimmick pile.
  
Jaeger

In regards to mileage and the 6MT coupe versus the 5-speed sedan, I can only offer the EPA's new testing numbers. Thus far, we've found their combined estimates to be generally on the money. Not so much with short-term cars (too much prolonged hard driving), but more so with LT cars.
 
I thought of mentioning my mileage for my return trip, but because an hour of driving consisted of idling around Qualcomm Stadium, it wasn't that hot -- around 22 mpg. Now before you start throwing flags, I also averaged 12 mpg in a Malibu last weekend running errands in Culver City traffic. So I'd rather stick to the new EPA numbers.

James,
 
When do you think the second blog will be up including the navigation video ?
No rush, I was just wondering.

"it wasn't that hot -- around 22 mpg."
 
22 mpg is hot for city mileage of a V6 sedan.
Even in the old 2007 days, V6 sedans were only optimistically rated 20 mpg in city.
Now for 2008, V6 sedans are rated 16 (Chrysler)-17 (GM, VW, Mazda, Subaru AWD)-18 (Ford)-19 mpg (Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai) in cities.
 
22 mpg is great.
You must have become accustomed to the Fit.

$600 a month for the Clarity includes FULL maintenance, Honda collision insurance, and the car itself. So the payment isnt that bad.
 
Regarding the Accord V6 5AT vs Accord 6MT, the VCM equipped V6 looses the performance mechanicals of the VTEC system so its straight line performance isnt as great as it could be. The peak numbers are the same VCM vs non VCM but under the curve the torque is about 30lbft lower in the VCM V6. On top of that add in the power sapping of the long geared 5AT and you have a less performing car vs the coupe. This has been proven on the dyno.
 
Im a bit dissapointed in the new Accord (sedan) as I too believe it slightly strayed away from the "Accord formula" which is the primary reason past Accords have been on the top of the ladder. The current car is good and and built well but its not the standout it used to be. Now the coupe is the complete opposite as its offers great performance and styling.

$600 a month lease payment equals a $51,000 car. It's really expensive for what a layman gets, but it's really dirt cheap fro a fuel cell vehicle. I wouldn't pay $600 monthly for a dinky Civic sized car.
Lease the 2008 Accord for only $259 a month!
Or get the Accord for free like Edmunds!

I think everything that AuraKr said make sense. What I have found after years on this site is that people who like Toyota/Honda, and consequently hate american cars, cannot wrap their minds around the concept that cars like the Accord are not God's gift to the driving public. If you state otherwise you are called a Honda hater or whatever. AuraKr said very little negative abou the Accord but that fact that he doesnt worship it attracted all kinds of attacks from others. I have been in the same situation before since I don't bow down to everything Honda and Toyota make. The accord is a good car. The Accord is an average car. The accord is one of two or three cars that could be realistically called best in class. The Accord is not head and shoulders above any vehicles in this class except maybe the Chrysler sedans. Like it or not that is the bottom line.
 
For all those who complain about the "minor" issues with the Accord that shouldnt be considered complaints I submit that minor issues are the only ones that separate cars these days. If the Aura is to be criticized for lacking grab handles than the Accord should be criticized for the features it lacks. Let the readers and potential buyers decide which features aren't important to them. I have noticed time and time again that those who constantly espouse the superiority of all things foreign refuse to acknowledge any shortcomings or omissions in import cars. whenever one is mentioned you get a "that's minor, I don't need that" but the total opposite reaction whenever the discussion turns to features missing from a domestic vehicle.

1487, not all of us who prefer Honda or Toyota vehicles HATE doemstic vehicles. I actually like the Aura, G6, Corvette, Fusion, CTS, Charger, 300C ETC ETC. But the reasons I like Honda vehicles are that they have CONSISTENTLY provided me with a certain level of tactile entertainment, refinement, reliability, and efficiency at an affordable price. I cant say the same for past domestic vehicles as they werent even competitive, although the current and future products may change my mind.....who knows.
 
I find it funny that people put so much value in these "Car of the Year" awards as it really doesnt say its "the best car". These awards are based on how much of an impact the vehicle has in its segment and/or how much of an improvement they are over the existing models. Also it has to do with how much impact it has for a certain division and/or brand. The CTS and Aura are fine examples as they are significant for Saturn, Cadillac, and most of all GM. And yes, I believe the Aura and CTS deserved their awards as these cars validate that GM can build competitive, distinctive cars. The only thing Im worried about is the consistency of doing so.
 
People also have to realize that others have different requirements involving vehicle preference. A vehicle thats good for one doesnt necessarliy mean that its good for another. The 3 series (I love the 3) is a good example of this as its been " the king" of its segment for years now. But this kind of performance DOESNT appeal to everyone so is it still the best car in its segment?

It is certainly news to me that "hating American cars" is a "consequence" of liking Honda / Toyota. Guess I didn't get the memo.
  
As for criticising Honda - that can often result in some fairly fractious responses. Honda fanboys (as distinct from Honda fans, among whose number I include myself) tend to be among the most outspoken and closed-minded. Funny how those two traits combine more often than not.
  
Jaeger

I own 2 dogs. Therefore I must hate all cats and turtles.
Do you own a cat or turtle? I'll kill them.
Let's go on a turtle killing spree together.

billt9 -- That 22 mpg was an hour sitting in Qualcomm traffic, plus a highway shot from San Diego to Los Angeles. So miles driven wise, it was mostly highway, but time in operation had a big chunk of stop and go in it.
 
And regarding the navigation part 2, I'll try and get into the Accord sometime next week to do the Martin Scorcese treatment on it. I have the G35 at the moment and am presumably a few hundred miles away from the Honda.

jriz
 
When were you sitting in Qualcomm traffic for an hour? Couldn't have been an Aztec game :o)
 
Did you go to the Charger/Colt game? I just got back from the Aztec/TCU game. Ouch, TCU 45-33. Oh well, there is always next year.
 
SubyTrojan:
 
Congrats on you guys beating ASU, well done. The Padres are so cheap. They should have signed Torii Hunter. ARRRGGGGHHH.
 
22 mpg, sounds about average for a midsize sedan with highway miles. Are you saying there are parts of Southern California without stop and go highway driving? Where, because I would really like to see them?
 
Does anyone know if the Accord's 190 hp 4 comes with an automatic? That might be the best ticket for mileage. The 177 I know comes with an automatic. Next spring might be time for a new comparison. The base Accord, Camry, Altima and Aura with 4 cylinder engines with automatics. Hopefully by then the new 6 speed automatics will be hooked up to the 4 cylinder for the Aura/Malibu.
 
Sounds interesting Accord 177 horsepower, 5 speed automatic
Camry 158 horsepower, 5 speed automatic
Altima 180 horsepower, CVT, Aura/Malibu 164 horsepower, 6 speed automatic.

"BTW Bimmerjay, does it bother you that BMW signed on with GM to develop hybrids, not Toyota or Honda? Maybe you might want to consider that when attacking GM's engineering prowess. Remember, BMW looked at all the hybrids designs out there, and chose GMs. Very interesting. So did Mercedes, no longer Daimler Chrysler."
  
Aurakr, why on earth would this bother me? GM has been building 6-speed auto transmissions for BMW 328i's for a couple years now, this isn't really news.
  
I wasn't attacking "GM's engineering prowess". I was attacking GM's fuel cell PRODUCT, as it compares to Honda's. GM has spent considerably less money and devoted fewer engineering resources on developing fuel cell technology than Honda, plain and simple... and it shows in their final products. I don't know why my comparison of those two would in any way represent how I feel about GM overall or their business dealings with BMW for that matter.
 
Believe it or not, I grew up in the Detroit area right smack in the middle of the Big 3. I have many many close ties to the domestics, for example my own father is a senior executive at one of the Big 3. Like a few others have said, I really don't understand why liking Honda, Toyota or BMW products means you have to dislike everything domestic.
 
Ok, that's enough OT for me.

If this post reaches 110 comments, will the person who had the most posts get a prize? Like maybe a ride in the Ferrari?...while following the navi-guided Accord?
 
Oh wait...maybe that last part wouldn't be a reward. Kinda has a Saturn L-Series trunk and light lines in back.

AuraKr, both versions of the Accords 4 cylinder come with the auto or the manual. The base LX/LX-P come with the 177hp version while the EX/EX-L come with the snarly 190hp version. The V6 sedan is auto only (for now) and the V6 coupe can be had with the auto or manual. Id personally take the 190hp EX-L/Navi 5MT as its would be a much better driving car than the V6 version.
 
AuraKR, regarding overall efficiency and the environment I have to give it to Honda, as being efficient ( in all areas) has always been at the core of the Honda philosophy since its birth. You cant say that about GM.
 
So what if BMW chose to partner with GM. They already have ties anyway since some BMWs use GM sourced transmissions.

"Does anyone know if the Accord's 190 hp 4 comes with an automatic? That might be the best ticket for mileage. The 177 I know comes with an automatic"
 
Yes it does. The automatic is available with every Accord engine.
 
Both the 190 and 177 version get 21 mpg city and 31 mpg highway with the automatic (22/31 manual). The V6 gets 19 mpg city and 29 mpg highway and is available only in automatic on the sedan. The V6's combined is actually 22 mpg, so I guess my fuel economy was dead on the money after all. Hmm, go figure.

Thanks for the information regarding the automatics.
 
Honda has always been known as being efficient, but sometimes I wonder if they get more credit than they deserve. Yes they have high mileage vehicles. But the Ridgeline is not exactly great when it comes to mileage. It really doesn't set the world on fire with either its abilities or mileage. It is rated at what 20 mpg on the highway, same as a fullsize pickup. Same with the Pilot and Odyysey. They don't get any better mileage than comparable vehicles.
 
The S2000 is another example. Yes it is a marvel in that it can rev to 8500 rpm or more, but it gets less highway mileage than a 400 horsepower Corvette. Which vehicle is actually more efficient?
 
That is why I would like to see a comparison next spring between an automatic Accord, and the Aura, Camry and Altima. I know the Altima comes with the CVT, so it gets a little advantage. Way to go Nissan.
 
All the other cars must come with the automatic, after all that is how almost all are bought.
 
I will grant the Civic gets far better mileage than the Cobalt. That is where GM has its weakness. That is why I will be following the mileage of the Accord carefully. Remember, however, no funny stuff like with the Camry.

Aurakr,
 
you can give up now.
How many comments have you left on this blog?
About 20 of the 112 comments ?
Ha ha.

BTW what happened to 2007 Camry? I don't even see it on the menu anymore. Anyone knows what happened? Did it just blow up?

Saturn dude,
 
Here is why I hate your Aura (and perhaps you):
1. The Exterior is ugly
2. There technometer looks ugly
3. The interior is ugly
4. The seats look horrible
5. The build quality seems to be rather crappy
6. Why is it that they all seem to come in ugly colors?
7. The biggest dork in my college used to cruise in his saturn on the campus with a big smirk and I said to my young self, "Gosh, I'll be darned if I ever buy a Saturn".
 
BTW, did you go to college in IL?
 
psssttt... Did you know there was an Aura board? Oh yes and BMWs are so much better than your Aura if you haven't realized that yet (and the new Accord too).

blacke61,
 
Most peolpe around here get so tight wound about certain cars becasue of attitudes like yours.
 
You mind is as closed as all those big3 consumers in the 70's,80's and some of the 90's. That said they will only buy Big3 cars and nothing else. Funny how tables have turned now. and the import cars have the same kind of closed-mindness that allowed the big3 to make crappy cars.
 
'Its a honda it must be good'.
To me is as stupid as someone back in the day saying.
I'm a ford guy, I'll always own a ford.
 
so if you wonder why people around here defend saturns a bit more. and attack the imports a bit harsher. Is that the attitude with those cars fans is growing faster then toyota.

"AuraKR, regarding overall efficiency and the environment I have to give it to Honda, as being efficient ( in all areas) has always been at the core of the Honda philosophy since its birth. You cant say that about GM. "
 
This is utter nonsense. Honda has better overall efficiency because they are NOT a full line manufacturer. Guess what Harley Davidson has a more efficient lineup than HOnda. why? Because they don't make trucks, cars and minivans. Comparing Honda to GM in terms of overall mileage is a joke since HOnda doesn't make V8s and only makes a handful of trucks. Unfortunately, some people do need vehicles with more size and power than the Ridgeline and GM is in the business of providing a large number of those vehicles.
 
blake61,
 
your comments are not helpful and show you to be extremely ignorant. even if you don't accept AuraKr's comments about the Aura you might want to note that the press has been very enthusiastic about the Aura. Your comments about the car being ugly inside and out are pure foolishness. The Aura is almost universally praised as one of the best looking cars in this segment. Your commentary makes it seem as if you are barely out of high school. I would recommend sitting in an Aura, driving one and reading up on the car before making more ignorant comments.

1487,
 
Outside:
http://66.160.188.111/roadtests/Comments/1568#cm
 
Inside:
http://66.160.188.111/roadtests/Comments/1403#cm
 
Quality? I'm laughin'
  
Opfreak, I own a BMW and a Cadi. When did I say anything about import vs domestic. You are just self conscious for one reason or the other. I hope it has nothing to do with... Let's keep the board clean.

blacke61
 
List the two models of cars you have and I can easily find 7 things to criticize about your cars. It seems like you are very threatened by the Aura.
 
BTW, you who love BMWs so much. Might want to get rid of it, after all that is a GM transmission you might have there, that might also end up in a Saturn. Who knows, if you have a CTS, the Aura has the same engine.

aurukr:
 
the tahoe caters to a different market than the rdx. and honda has had no problem marketing the rdx to the right people.
 
who says the engine doesn't make good real world power? 0-60 in 7 seconds is good for any car, much less an suv that handles like a civic. to get performance out of big american suv's, they usually wear a higher pricetag and a gaz guzzler penalty. different strokes for different folks.
 
all your comments on how certain honda vehicles look are utterly useless, as its all about personal taste. (the same goes for the honda fanboy's who think that, in turn, EVERYTHING NOT honda/acura is hideous.)
 
mtcoty award is a joke. motor trend in general is a joke. griping over how the accord didn't win it is useless. these are also the guys who claimed that the camry se was 'sportier' than the new accord, despite the fact that the biggest difference between base and SE camrys is very VERY VERY slight differences in spring rates. (and the interior ofcourse.)
 
the current gen civic won car of the year last year from them. but i didn't need that to determine wether or not it was a good car.
 
in short, MT and MT's COTY award is not the 'end-all' opinion on anything. who cares what MT 'thinks' the accord should be? shouldn't that be left to honda? ( i know crazy thought!)
 
to me, the accord has never been an 'end-all' vehicle either. it just did a mix of things very well. For MT (or anyone else for that matter) to call one particular models 'excessive' buttons (a model which everyone has been quick to point out Is NOT the model MOST people would get.) is just silly.
 
it drives well, its not trying to be something it isn't, its comfy and its well made. has it utterly failed on any of those accounts? no. are we going to see if does? yes. given its track record and how important of a car it is to honda, do you really expect it to be a horrible failure of a car? no, i don't think anyone should.
 
and while i don't agree with fanboy flag waiving, saying 'its a honda, it has to be good' is slightly, (if only marginally) more valid than saying 'its a ford and i've always driven a ford so i'll always own a ford', simply because Honda has ACTUALLY given people a reason to feel that way, with consistently well driving and reliable vehicles. (sure they have the lemon every now and then, but the point is, it happens a lot less than with other makes. and no, this comment is not to induce 'well, my brother and law had a piece of crap civic!....' type of comments. )
 
and while i don't
 
jaeger: true, there have been plenty of non-accord related posts (heck, this one was one of them!) but wether you are commenting on the accord itself, or complaining about it in some fashion, like you said, it shows how important of a vehicle it is. ;)

blacke61: funny post, haha
 
everyone else who read his list...notice he says "why i hate the aura and maybe you" not "why i hate the aura and you should too"
 
his own opinions

"This is utter nonsense. Honda has better overall efficiency because they are NOT a full line manufacturer. Guess what Harley Davidson has a more efficient lineup than HOnda. why? Because they don't make trucks, cars and minivans. Comparing Honda to GM in terms of overall mileage is a joke since HOnda doesn't make V8s and only makes a handful of trucks. Unfortunately, some people do need vehicles with more size and power than the Ridgeline and GM is in the business of providing a large number of those vehicles."
  
1487, If you would read a bit more carefully, I said efficient IN ALL AREAS, that means much more than just fuel economy itself. And yes efficiency and environmental responsibility is ( like always) at the core of Honda NOT GM. Honda has proved themselves as being a pioneer in this area while GM is just coming into the light. Remember a little car called the CVCC back in the 70's? Where was GM with efficiency or evironmental responsibility then? Again its at the core of the Honda philosophy.
  
"The S2000 is another example. Yes it is a marvel in that it can rev to 8500 rpm or more, but it gets less highway mileage than a 400 horsepower Corvette. Which vehicle is actually more efficient?"
  
AuraKR, the loooooooooooong Corvette gearing plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE here, and there are a lot of other variables also. The F20/F22C engines in the S2000 are still more efficient as they make much more power from their displacement (power density). The Solstice and Solstice GXP (the GXP gets better milage than the base) get around the same milage as an S2000. According to your analysis does that make them "less efficient" than the Vette too? I will agree with you about the Corvettes milage as its indeed impressive while having over 400hp.
  
For future reference, efficiency doesnt equal ONLY fuel economy.

Aukra aka Space Cadet,
 
I have no problem if Saturn makes a great car and I do own a GM. And I have no problem with my BMW using GM parts. All I said was that I hate Aura and perhaps you (well definitely you). Here are three things I noticed though:
 
1. You are very defensive (huge chip on your shoulder)
2. You don't have your facts straight
3. You are a virgin

HondaAcura4
 
Efficient can mean different things to different people. But in this case, we are discussing fuel efficiency. The fact is that yes, gearing means a lot, but that is the choice of the manufacturer. Point being, the Corvette is more efficient than the S2000. It is also, as you state more efficient than the base Sky, no argument. I am amazed that the Redline gets better mileage than the base, and offers 90 more horsepower. No argument from me. In fact, I wouldn't doubt if the Corvette gets better mileage than my XR. No doubt.
 
My point is that for many people, a little engine that develops a lot of power is efficient, as you state. For others, if the little engine uses as much or more fuel than the bigger ones, that means the engine is not efficient.
 
By the way, GM was first with the cylinder deactivation way back in the eighties, wasn't it? Granted the idea was way ahead of the technology, but GM was ahead of others on this idea.
 
Blacke61
 
I actually don't have a chip on my shoulder. Just keeping the fanatics off balance. In other words, keeping it real, which really annoys the anti-domestic haters out there. Oh well.
 
Show me where my facts are wrong. I haven't seen it yet.
 
#3, Tell that to my wife and two children. Up to this point, I have kept it simply about the cars, and my observations about the blogs of the editors. You might want to consider keeping it that way too.

blacke61, please try to treat everyone as you would like to be treated.
 
Aurakr, thanks for keeping your cool.

SubyTrojan
 
No problem. I wouldn't be very good at what I do, if I lost my cool now would I? By the way, if you look at my posts regarding the VCM, everyone would see that I am actually very interested in Honda' s system. If it turns out better than GM's fuel efficiency wise, all the props to them. In fact, I would be surprised if it wasn't, because of the ability to stay in 4 cylinders.
 
I am so disappointed in the Padres, I really, really, wanted them to sign Torii Hunter. I know I was dreaming, but imagine him for the next 5 years in center at Petco Park. Add his bat to the lineup and he being a good guy, what an addition. John Moores is so cheap, when it comes to the Padres. Otherwise he is a nice man and very generous.
 
I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving. In the spirit of the holidays, I will endeavor to only say nice things about each car and each car blog I respond to. Starting now.
 
The new 08 Accord appears to have the most efficient use of space in what used to be considered the midsized sedan area. The Accord sure has grown up.
 
HondaAcura4, believe it or not my wife had one of the CVCCs when we first met and got married. It was a little yellow thing. We used to laugh, because I swore it would fit in the trunk of my 72 Impala. She loved that car, even though she had to run the heater to keep it from overheating. When driving it, I used to laugh and call it a toy car. Unfortunately for the CVCC, she forgot to check the oil like you should with an older car. It was bone dry. I added oil, but two weeks later, white smoke. Not sure whatever happened to it, we sold it to my sister as is.

"By the way, GM was first with the cylinder deactivation way back in the eighties, wasn't it? Granted the idea was way ahead of the technology, but GM was ahead of others on this idea."
 
Very true but the system was poorly executed and unreliable if I remember correctly. GM's newer system seems to be much better. I actually dont care for the VCM 2 that currently resides in the V6 5AT Accord.

HondaAcura4
 
I agree with you wholeheartedly. My dad used to say the idea was brilliant. However, it was an idea way ahead of its time. I actually like the idea of cylinder deactivation. I also wish that all manufacturers would just put in as standard equipment an autostop for the engines at stop signs. Imagine an increase in fuel economy across the board of around 10%.

blacke61, the Camry finished its stay in the fleet a while back, they posted the wrap-up in September I think.

SubyTrojan, gotcha. Is Trojan a reference to USC or birthcontrol?
 
Daytona500. Thanks I must have missed it. That was a short stay.

blacke61, here is the long-term 2007 Toyota Camry LE V6 wrap-up article.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/LongTerm/articleId=117036
 
The "Trojan" in my username refers to my alma mater, the University of Southern California. Fight on! Beat the Bruins (tune in to ABC on Saturday, December 1, 2007 @ 4:30 PM EST/1:30 PM PST)!
 
I take it you have a black E61 5 Series wagon. If so, what year and model is it? I used to work in the service department of a BMW dealership in Southern California. Oh the memories of E60/E61/E63/E64/E65/E66/E90/E91/E92 vehicles coming in needing Progman software updates!

SubyTrojan, you are absolutely right. I had some problem with the car in its first 4 months. But BMW service guys are among the best I've dealt with so far.
 
I was actually working overseas (Dubai) until middle of this year and got a model that they don't have in the US. When my company brought me back home I decided to bring my car with me. E61 dissel is the one I wanted but mine is 2007 523ai. It's still under the 2 year international warranty (only BMW has two year overseas warranty).
 
Engine is small and 0-60 is not that great. But once it gets off, it drives pretty well. So far I had three problems with it.
 
1. The funky a/c smell. I used a can of spray carpet freshner to fix the problem.
2. The traction control (DTC) got disabled somehow.
3. Everytime I restart the car the low battery warning sign would come on.
Problem 2&3 were resolved when the dealer updated the software.
 
Since I got my car in Dubai, I had Dubai version nav. The dealer said they can reprogram the car and make my BMW assist and navigation US compatible. But I have a AAA membership and I don't really need the navigation so I haven't brought in my car to the dealer yet (too lazy actually). Most likely I will just bring the car back to Dubai or wherever in the world if my company exports me again.
 
BTW, great showing against the Salukis.

hondaacura4 has some serious ownage going on.

"mtcoty award is a joke. motor trend in general is a joke. griping over how the accord didn't win it is useless. these are also the guys who claimed that the camry se was 'sportier' than the new accord, despite the fact that the biggest difference between base and SE camrys is very VERY VERY slight differences in spring rates. (and the interior ofcourse.) "
 
funny how everyone has a problem with the Award when the CTS wins it. MT is very clear about how they chose the winner and I dont always agree with their choice but usually it makes sense. The idea that the award is a joke because Honda didnt win is laughable and shows that some people refuse to give due credit. Dont be mad because the press is recognizing progress at GM and you cannot. The CTS is a worthy winner and was named to C&D 10Best as well. Let me guess, that list is a joke as well. funny thing, C&D has the Accord on that list as well.
 
honda,
 
"1487, If you would read a bit more carefully, I said efficient IN ALL AREAS, that means much more than just fuel economy itself. And yes efficiency and environmental responsibility is ( like always) at the core of Honda NOT GM. Honda has proved themselves as being a pioneer in this area while GM is just coming into the light. Remember a little car called the CVCC back in the 70's? Where was GM with efficiency or evironmental responsibility then? Again its at the core of the Honda philosophy. "
 
poorly informed. GM has the greenest auto assembly plant in the US at Lansing where the lamda's are made. Google it and read up on it before commenting further. In addition most Big 3 plants are built in older communities and often are build on brownfields. Plants built by Honda and Toyota and Hyundai are usually in the middle of virgin cornfileds in the south where there are few road or rail connections. Those plants erase farmland, add roads and encourage sprawl- that isnt green to me but no one in the press talks about this stuff when singing the praises of Honda and Toyota.
 
There is more to being "green" than importing small cars meant for Europe. Gm does a lot of "green" stuff on the corporate side and is working to reduce the consumption of its largest vehicles. The Tahoe hybrid gets better mileage than the V6 Pilot in spite of weighing 1300lbs more. regardless of what the Honda philosophy may be Honda is not a full line manufacturer like GM and Toyota and Nissan. No V8s and no real trucks mean you will have better overall efficiency. Honda can chose not to make trucks but people still need them and GM has decided to meet that need.

"Quality? I'm laughin' "
 
I'm laughing at the fact you are wasting so much time trying to trash a car that has gotten so much positive press. Not everyone has said its the benchmark but no one has said its not competitive and attractive. So I can go with my personal experience and the reviews or I can go with your opinion which appears to be disconnected from reality.
 
aurakr,
 
I havent found you to be inaccurate yet. Of course you will continue to be attacked if you dont endorse the status quo when it comes to evaluating these vehicles. I'm sure you are used to it. The harder people attack the more likely they cant counter your statements with anything of substance. Its a predictable pattern. Once the name calling begins you know people have run out of logical things to say.

blacke61, I'm not really much of a basketball fan, USC or otherwise. The young team is still too sloppy to be great. They'll be playing some ranked opponents in the next few weeks. We'll see how they do. Are you located in the Southern California area?

SubyTrojan
The men's Trojan bbal team is looking good this year if you haven't noticed. They already beat 16th ranked team and I'll be really surprised if they don't go to the big dance this year.
  
I am based in NY now but I spend a lot of time overseas. Thankfully now I'm in Thailand and had no turkey. Boy do I wish I lived in socal so I can get a nice convertible.
  
1487, the quality issues, at least posted on this site, seem pretty real. I would not want to have parts falling off while I'm driving and do not want to see any exposed wires inside the car. Sure, most cars have some quirky problems (like my car needing software updates) but I find it unacceptable that the dealer or the manufacturers cannot resolve the problem. [http://66.160.188.111/.ee9f889]
If these posted problems are not real I don't know what is. And I find your reasoning very problematic. Just because a car got some good press, it does not mean I can't say the car sucks. But I'll be honest. I was getting a bit annoyed by the whole fanboy thing going on there. If you have a car and you like it, fine. Enjoy it. But I find it a bit annoying when someone really really want you to have the same view. I have a car, I like it but I don't go out preaching. And I'm not being a badge snob. I was condisering the new Malibu, accord, camry and maybe upcoming hyundais to replace my BMW. I also have an old STS (and it's a crappy crappy car) but I love it and I will keep it until it falls apart.