2008 Scion xB: Low Fuel Rant

jriz, My Cooper S's low fuel light tends to go on with 54 miles left in the tank. Of course about 90 miles the car seems to go into this freefall, causing 54 to show up extremely fast. So around 320-330 miles I get the low fuel indicator. I know I'll be around the 13 gallon mark if I drive beyond 385 (unless it's hot and I'm running the AC constantly). I try to snag gas around 360 miles so I have a gallon or two left.

I have never understood the reasoning behind the center gauge mount. The only car I know of that has this setup and a reason for it is the Mini, and the reason is that for rallying purposes the navigator can easily monitor the speed. That makes sense to me, but for all of these other cars what gives? The other cars using a center gauge setup are Scions and Saturn Ions, so racing is obviously not part of the equation, and they're pointed towards the driver anyway.

Two things:
 
It has managed just 23.8 mpg average... and is equipped with a navigation system?!? Aren't micro cars supposed to be efficient and simple?

frankly, I like the xa my fiance has better, the power isn't there, but that 20 less hp, gives here 30mpg in the city, and about 40 on the freeway
 
gas gauge is just like the xb though, empty at about 240 miles, but thats only about 8 gallons of fuel. so theres what another 3 or so in the tank.

My '02 Altima is the same way, maybe even more conservative. It has a 20 gallon tank, and I've never filled more than 18.1 gallons. And I've driven it a good 50-75 miles after the low fuel warning came on and the trip computer no longer displayed a "distance to empty" -- it was just flashing angrily at me.

Yes, the previous xB needed more power, but its whole appeal was in its minimalism. It had charm, it had agility, it had economy. Normally it takes two or three generations for an automaker to suck the soul out of a good original idea (think about the Mitsubishi Eclipse, or the original Mustang), but Toyota's done it in a single revision. This new thing's just a minivan.

I agree with stephen.
 
As for the center-mounted gauges, I love them in the xB (at least the old one, which I've driven a lot). Real center-mounted gauges like in the xA or Ion are terrible, yes. But in the xB it's offset towards the driver and pretty high up and farther back. So it's easier to see at a glance than conventional gauges, imo.

If they'd simply put the 1.8 from the Corolla (128bhp) into the previous 1.5 liter (106bhp) xB, they'd have had me as a customer. Instead, they built this. . .this THING.

so the fuel light comes on with about 3 gallons left? That seems typical. My Civic with 13.2 gallon tank, the light comes on with 2-3 gallons left.
 
And mid-20s mpg is not surprisingly low for a 2.4 liter car. you can expect to see around the same mileage for Accord 2.4 or Camry 2.4. The problem is that Toyota installed a fuel tank too small for an engine this big, so your cruising range suffers. 16-18 gallon tank is more appropriate. I believe Accord and Camry has around 18 gallon tank. IMO, xB should have been a lighter car with a 1.8-2.0L engine.

the low fuel lights are incredibly annoying. for my altima, i think it comes on when there are about 4 gallons left. i get about 35 mpg (hybrid) so this means i have another 140 miles to go before i run out of fuel. that's ridiculous when you compare the range of my 02 sentra (highest i've ever gotten was 325 miles). so basically i can drive 40% of the entire range of my old sentra when i have the low fuel light come on....does anyone else think that's a bit silly?
 
but dan, when you refilled the scion, did you fill it to the brim? because even when the pump stops on it's own, i can typically get another 1/2-1 gallon in and still not have any spill out. so maybe you only had 1/2-1 gallon left in the tank

The mileage isn't terrible for the engine displacement and the size, shape and interior volume of the thing. The market-timing of the fuel economy drop couldn't be worse, however.
 
Folks have developed a very clear picture of what a Scion xB is (or should be), based on an outlaw design and a clever Scion marketing campaign. Some loved that image, others hated it. This car should win-over some of the previous haters, but might alienate some fans along the way. I probably fall into the first group. The question is this: which group represents more sales for Scion?
 
The xA was rebadged the xD after changes that were far less significant. One could argue that changes made to the xB are more deserving of a new name. It's a whole new car that just happens to look similar.

The problem is that the old xB had virtually just as much usable space, and got significantly more MPGs. As somebody who was interested in the old xB when I look at this one wonder, why would I want a vehicle with less space, less style (IMO), less MPGs, and less fun to drive for more money?
 
The original xB was something totally new, and really cool and unique. This new one is just like a smallish crossover thing, like a cheep RAV4 without AWD available. There is a place for such a vehicle in the Scion lineup but it is not the xB. If they had added this as a new model and kept something more along the lines of the original xB, that would have been great.

I've never been a fan of the xB. I totally see the cult underground hip following, but I just can't love something that boxy. I also really don't like the new center mounted gauges some cars have. I understand the usefulness in rallying, but for a day to day car? That would drive me nuts.

My aunt has an 05 xB in L.A. and that car is perfect for her. I have to admit it's a little slow in the hills of L.A. but you typically aren't going that fast. I have to say though it's a good alternative to an SUV (she hauls around a lot of camera equipment) and she parks that thing in places that are only sutiable for motorcycles!!! I think the new XB just really missed the charm of the previous one.
 
That fuel range is really dissapointing!!! I usually get around 350 miles to my tank in my legacy and the most fuel I've ever put in it was a hair over 15 gallons and that was after I ran it till the DTE display goes blank!!! On trips I usually get close to 500 miles to the tank. It looks like the xB only has one positive to it's range... you won't explode your bladder waiting for then next fuel stop!

It's the shape people, it's the shape!!
This thing has the looks and drag coefficient of a brick combined with a high profile and the big engine.....it's mileage is comparable to a 2.5 Imprezza (which has AWD, by the way).
Consider, a Fit get's worse MPG than a CIVIC with a bigger/stronger engine. Drag kills.

How about this: why not make "E" mean empty, and why not put the gauge somewhere where its easily seen without the prodding of a warning lamp?
 
But this one goes to "11."

HAHAHA!!! daveflores!
 
And anyway, if the fuel light came on with only a half gallon left in the tank and you ran out of fuel, you'd be saying, "WTF?"
 
Or people would whine that they don't like how it doesn't provide enough warning. Get gas already. Sorry, but I go through this all the time with my wife. Its like she thinks that she'll get a disease if she pumps gas.
 
I sometimes fill up before I've used even half a tank. If I'm in no hurry and the gas station isn't crowded, I'll go on and top off. Especially on a weekend. That way I don't have to worry during the week when things are more hectic.

crowb:
 
Maybe your wife is related to mine. Mine has run a 25 gallon tank down to .6 gallons. Scary, oh yeah. She was using the car information computer which said she had 80 miles left to empty.
 
We pulled over and gassed up. 24.4 gallons until full. I told her I would not help her push it if it ran out of fuel. At least in her van's defense, the low fuel light had been on for at least 40 miles. She of course ignored that.
 
At least I taught my daughter right, she bothers me to gas up her car at just under 1/2 tank. Good kid.

aurakr,
 
All that proves is that your daughter is smart enough to get you to pay for her gas at every opportunity ; )
 
I think that's the same reason my wife waits so long. She keeps hoping I'll be in the car and just fill up the tank for her. Which I do of course...which is why I've earned the right to criticize her habits : )

Could it be that the fuel warning light comes on early so that the fuel pump in the tank doesn't burn up (because there isn't enough gas in the engine to cool the pump)?

My S warns me when I have under 1 gallon left. I've never seen the light on my 2500. The light might be burned out.

I can't stop at 1/2 or even 1/4 tank. My commute is too long for that. I'd be stopping every 1 or 2 days. I've got to make time on the road and keep moving, lest I get bogged down in traffic. Ten minutes can make all the difference where escaping LA traffic is concerned. On road trips, I get destination-fixated.
 
Perhaps I'm just too literal. To me, 1/4 tank in this 14-gallon car should occur at 3.5 gallons left (I'd go as far as 4). I don't mind the light coming on earlier at, say, 1/8 of a tank - as long as 1/8 or a tank means 1/8 of a tank and empty means very close to empty. I think 50 miles is plenty of warning. I'm totally bothered by a gauge that can be a needle-width below EMPTY with 40 more miles to go.
 
300-mile range is a magic number. That we can't get that here makes all of the above more annoying. I agree with the earlier poster - the xB needs to carry more than 14-gallons.

It should be noted that the xB's trip computer has a Distance To Empty meter. I too found the xB's range to be lacking on my trip to Arizona (it needs either better economy or a bigger tank), and found this gauge that's happily finding its way into more cars particularly useful.

Two things I want to point out:
 
Langjie wrote: "but dan, when you refilled the scion, did you fill it to the brim? because even when the pump stops on it's own, i can typically get another 1/2-1 gallon in and still not have any spill out. so maybe you only had 1/2-1 gallon left in the tank"
 
You should never fill the tank to the brim. When the pump shuts off, that is as full as it should go. Adding any more will flood your charcoal canister and require costly repairs. Reading that made me cringe.
 
Also, running the tank to absolutely empty can cause the fuel pump to overheat. The pump actually uses the fuel surrounding it as coolant. I try to fill up whenever I'm between 1/4 to 1/8 of a tank left. If I see a station with an unusually low rate and I'm not normally in that area, I might top of there just to take advantage of the cheap gas. I never understood why people will push their cars until they're sucking fumes. Isn't that just added stress?
 
Also, if your commute takes 3/4 of a tank every day, even in a new xB, I'd seriously reconsider my work/home locations. I used to commute from Azusa to Anaheim every day, and I considered that a bad commute, yet I still always went a week between gas stops, and that was filling up at my 1/4 to 1/8 tank remaining. That's with a 13.5 gallon tank getting about 26 mpg in stop and go traffic for half the commute and going 80 mph on steep hills for the other half.

I usually refuel at under 1/4 tank. Refueling when over 1/4 tank is overkill, unless you're driving intercity/interstate.

The new xB has a drag coefficient of 0.32, same as the new VW Golf GTI and only 0.01 higher than the new Civic. The McLaren F1 was at 0.32 too (but with a low frontal area). So the boxiness isn't as unaerodynamic as it looks!

Interesting point about the overheating, but I'm not sure it's an across-the-board fact. I know people I can ask. If true, manufacturers should publish the "usable" gas tank capacity if a specific amount is off-limits for use as a fuel-pump coolant.

crowb
 
You are probably right about the daughter. Must be karma catching up with me from when I was the teenager and my dad kept having to throw $10-20 in my tank just so he wouldn't have a heart attack from seeing the gas gauge.
 
When I try to encourage my wife to fill up earlier, I get the hand gesture. You know speak to the hand, I don't want to hear it.

carlisimo,
 
the real measure of drag on a car is the product of the cd-value and the frontal area of the car. So a car with a larger frontal area will generate higher drag (driving at a same rate of speed) compared to a car with a smaller area, even if they have the same cd value.
Also see this quote from WIKIPEDIA:
 
"While designers pay attention to the overall shape of the automobile, they also bear in mind that reducing the frontal area of the shape helps reduce the drag. The combination of drag coefficient and area is CdA (or CxA), a multiplication of the Cd value by the area.
 
In aerodynamics, the product of some reference area (such as cross-sectional area, total surface area, or similar) and the drag coefficient is called drag area. In 2003, Car and Driver adapted this metric and adopted it as a more intuitive way to compare the aerodynamic efficiency of various automobiles. Average full-size passenger cars have a drag area of roughly 8.5 ft² (.79 m²). Reported drag area ranges from the 1999 Honda Insight at 5.1 ft² (.47 m²) to the 2003 Hummer H2 at 26.3 ft² (2.44 m²)."

You said, in part:
 
"Through 25 tanks the average fuel economy has been only 23.8 mpg and the average fill occurred at just 230 miles."
 
Since you racked up 6,000 miles in 2 months I have to assume a lot of that is freeway driving, and if that is the case, 23.8 mpg is pretty terrible, as I'm sure you've figured out. But maybe you have a staff messenger who uses it for delivery errands and mostly drives it on the street? Street driving, particularly with a lead foot, really ruins gas mileage.
 
For example, we have a 2006 Impala and it got 28 mpg on a drive from San Francisco to Tahoe - including up the mountain and back down. BUT when my wife is using it for her city driving - 100% city driving - mileage drops to 14 mpg, despite the fact that the EPA rating is higher than that.
 
BTW, I think your original review considered this to be a "better" Dodge Caliber. I think I probably agree with that, as a Caliber owner (the people/luggage packing is much better in the new xB, and I lust after that 2.4 liter engine in the xB - my Caliber only has a 1.8. BUT my Caliber is returning a 32 mpg average on my 37 mile (74 mile roundtrip) almost all freeway commute with relatively free flowing traffic.... the virtues of a stick shift, tiny engine, and conservative driving. And yes, I keep every gas receipt, use the trip meter for miles, and a calculator to calculate and average gas mileage. :-)

I know Cd*A is what matters, but only Citroen's ever published those figures with any consistency. My point was just to show that the xB isn't that un-aerodynamic. It's frontal area is not comparatively high, nor is its Cd... so it's not bad. At all.

When I used the '02 Mustang as a daily driver, 300 miles per tank was my goal, although I'd usually fill up somewhere between 250 and 300. For my new '07 Focus I consistently get better than 300 per tank, with the best tank (in four fill-ups) giving me about 380 miles. No low fuel warning yet. I wanted a car that was cheap, good on gas, and could get me close to that magical 400-mile-per-tank mark so I could go a whole week without filling up. So the Scion's poor range is yet another reason I would not consider it.

langjie and anythingbutgm
 
To be fair to the xB, take it on some highway trips like you did the Camry and I'm sure its mileage will go up. See, I am fair. If however, on these trips the mileage doesn't go above 25 mpg, then we can say that Toyota screwed up in making it heavier and giving it a bigger engine. I would think this should get about 30 mpg on the highway, unless it is a mack truck in the drag department.
 
Drive it and report back. I am curious to see what kind of mileage it gets. Then later you could compare it to an HHR with the 2.4

A really good add_on is a Scanguage II, it has a lot of gauge functions and a really good trip meter. Plugs into the OBDI port and is transferable between cars. I had one on a Prius to get RPM and Water Temp, but found the trip meter to be the most valuable asset - now using it on an 08 Highlander. It would give you gallons left, miles left, hours left of fuel and you can set the tank capacity that you want and can adjust the consumption rate re: the OBDI info at each fill if the fill qty is off. I had - 3% on the Prius and +6% now on the highlander. Best place to buy is priuschat.com group buy store. Very popular with the Prius crowd.

I am very disappointed in the mileage figures for the new xB. I would consider that car as an efficient-but-fun sedan replacement -- if it could actually nail the "efficient" part.
 
As it is, I'm getting the same mileage in my Aura XE, which has a 3.5L OHV V6 and (as has been pointed out in this blog) carries a relatively small fuel tank, along with mass comparable to a Sherman tank.
 
Still, the xB has far more real-world "utility" than most SUV's.

This is one of the reasons that I love my Altima Hrbyid - it's easy to get 600 miles out of a tank, conservative gas gauge notwithstanding.
 
Here's another method of programming a gas gauge to consider: VW programs their low-fuel lights to come on when there is 1.8 gallons left in the tank. Using that knowledge & roughly approximating one's fuel mileage from that point, it's pretty easy to avoid running out of gas. A number of manufacturers are less precise, which contributes to situations like the one that Dan's described here.

So its ugly and its not even good on gas. What exactly is the point of this vehicle then, besides being cheap to buy?

Thank you, roar02ram! You get it. Gauges that are imprecise and warn over-early are more likely to get mistrusted and ignored, increasing the chance of someone running out of fuel.

my fit tells me at when there is 1.7 gallons left. and it does so before it reaches the 'E' mark, so that when its on E i know it really is 'E'.
 
i must say, this is very discouraging for xb owners; my vw rabbit, while weighing a bit less, still got better mileage than this. My tanks were regularly 310-320 miles, with an all time high of 360 on a long road trip. The gas tank is a 14.5er.

I generally agree with the fuel gauge quirks, although I have not yet driven until the light comes on. It just seems like my gauge drops much faster from F to a half tank than from half to E. My Civic is just the opposite and I got used to that. Disappointing quirk or just bad calibration. So far, I love the XB. Even though I lost some MPG from the Civic, I gained a more comfortable ride and a lot more utility. I've only driven it for three fill ups and have averaged 28.4, 29 and 29.4 with the 5 speed with at least 75% highway driving. My trip computer is usually about 1-1.5 mpg more optimistic than reality. My last tank I drove 318 miles and only put ~10.8 gallons in the tank to fill it. I just wish the tank were bigger. In my Civic, I only had to fuel up once a week. In the XB, I knew that I was going to use a little more fuel, but filling up more than once every 7 days makes it *feel* worse.