Ferrari 308 GTSi: Kicked to the Curb

Well, I don't know what Ferrari gurus will think of this, but could you swap out the transmission fluid with a new synthetic like Amsoil or Swepco. I imagine it will improve the shift feel and the cold weather issues.
 
Other than that, it sounds like a 23 year old Ferrari to me! Oh speaking of, where is that audio clip we've been promised. :)
 
PS: I just figured out why the 308 is being mischievous toward you. Check out the first picture in this entry. You left bird crap on it? Tsk tsk tsk. You know what divas Ferraris are...

Yeah, really. What is it with me and exotic cars?

Yeah, the bird crap opens up a whole #11 entry. We sat around the office Tuesday deciding how to get it washed. The places we usually go to use some sort of mechanized system. Due to door/window seal issues and a desire to keep the engine bay dry, this one needs a full hand wash - not something we'd do on a twice-a-week basis, I think. I might go out there with a bucket and sponge before sunset.

With all things that age, the need for Depends gets more and more apparent, and we all turn a little more sour and stubbern.
 
But there are exceptions...like Lauren Bacall and your 308.

Ah, but sending a Ferrari through a car wash as opposed to hand washing is like a model going to a tanning bed as opposed to the beach. In the end you might get some damage and it's a heck of a lot less fun. ;)
 
I guess that is the advantage of an older Ferrari. You don't have to run out with the clay bar every time something nasty touches your finish.

I don't think a 23 year old Ford Pinto would be any prize either or many other older cars. You are driving an old car which in it's own way is an Icon. Ferrari's are great and I am a fan of them but not for a daily driver.
I think when people drive a lot of expensive new cars everyday for a living, what happens is older cars that in their day were great are now going to show their age. Ferrari's AFAIK were never daily drivers. You had to have serious money to buy and maintain one. Today the maintainance is very high as it's old and it's probably going to need a lot more as you guys rack up the miles. I've driven a 328 and it was great fun but I wouldn't have wanted to buy it. Too expensive to maintain on a yearly basis.
I think if you compare it to a new F430 with the F1 shifter the F430 will be an awesome car, then when it gets 23 years old, buy one and see how it compares to cars that will be available in 23 years. It probably won't do so well either.
The Ferrari is a weekend car or one for sunny days after work to cruise around in. For a daily driver there are far better cars that will cost the same or less as the 308. The daily complaints fade away if you just drive it on non-working days.
 
I think Edmunds should put up a Poll as to how long people think the 308 will last until you have a major breakdown driving it everyday.
Sign me up for 19 days before something major breaks.
 
I'm really glad Edmunds did this test and I think it's great and shows a people a lot about owning an exotic car and even moreso when it gets old.

Regarding #7: The 'i' in "GTSi" stands for "injection" (K-Jetronic, if memory serves). Since when does pumping the accelerator on an injected car do anything?

Finally! Someone from the Edmunds crew is not oohing and ahhing about this car. Great post. Thanks for the reality check.

7driver: Yeah, I know its injected. And I didn't end up pumping it. I was simply going through the mental checklist we all used to follow back in the 70s and 80s when a car wouldn't start and seemed flooded. And it used to happen a LOT.

I've found that age is not really an issue when it come to Fiat products...and Ferrari is indeed a Fiat product, with all that that implies. 355's were notorious for valve guide failure at fewer than 10,000 miles, regardless of age. If one compares a 911 from the same year they'll find the car to be agile, rattle free, reliable, and quick, even when compared to cars of today.
 
 How about this as an example. A 1983 Carrera will still accelerate to 100kmh in less than 6 seconds, while a 308 would take a lesiurely 8 seconds or more. Even something as mundane as a 1983 VW GTI 16 will blow the Ferrari away from a standing start.
 
In my ealier commentary I ommited the overheating problems wwe experienced with our GTSI QV. The thing would go into the red if our road speed dropped below 45mph on 60f days. Remember, I owned a european car repair shop at the time and I tried everything possible to alleviate the problem. My calls to Ferrari's 'technical department' asking for their input were answered with suggestions like " maybe the fans are turning too slowly" or "maybe the h2o pump is bad". Well after testing the fan motors it was found they were turning more than 100 revs faster than spec..and I had already replaced the water pump with the 'high output' version.
 
I even went so far at to test the cooling system for exhaust gas, just in case a head head or it's gasket, or even a cylinder liner had failed. Nothing there..all was just peachy fine. Next step was removing the radiator, driving it to a central Michigan radiator shop working with Winston Cup temas..in my wife's RELIABLE Renault R5Turbo Tour de Corse by the way..to have a NASCAR radiator fabricated for the thing. Guess waht...same problem.
 
The biggest embarrasment happened at the Fi GP of Canada at Montreal. We drove there every year to participate in Ferrari Club Quebec's annual motorcade thru the city, followed by laps on the F1 circuit before the race started. We were trapped in the single file parade about midway back..these guys were traveling at less than 80kph on the racetrack would you believe.. and I watched in horror as the temp needle rapidly launched it's way toward the stop. It happend right at the hairpin's apex..right on the racing line. With all the world viewing, our 308 puked every bit of it's coolant in a giant blueish green plume..spewing onto the Ferraris following behind.
 
To top it off about 40 of our friends were in the lower two rows of the grandstand immediately abreast of the corners exit..some evn caught the episode on video. Oh, I forgot to mention, the Ferrari club had reserved most of the grandstand at the centre of that very same corner, bringing a new meaning to the word 'Embarassment'.
 
While the car was being repaired at Luigi Ferrari we met another 'satisfied owner'. It seems his 355 had, on a zany whim, taken upon itself to become a 4 cylinder car, frying it's ungodly expensive DinoPlex computer. And he had only traveled from Toronto.. When other Ferrari owners there learned we hav been so bold at to risk travel by road from Chicago they were stunned. Even the unfortunate 4 cylinder 355 owner had towed his car the scant 450km, fearing some mechanical failure.
 
Someone asked about my favourite Porsche. Number 1 would have to be the 911RS Martini-Porsche racecar I recently sold. My favourite street 911 is my current type 993 Carrera4RS, the last of the aircooled versions. The type 993 is , in my opinion, the most desirable 911 of all..still possesing that visceral feel 911 have always conveyed, while having excellent a/c and heating, as well as fantastic engineering, execution and build quality. Braking provided by the huge [ 2,000hp brakes on mine ] perforated discs will leave you stunned and dazed. Reliability is, per usual for Porsche, a non issue. Again, a term that can that can never be associated with the names of Fiat and Ferrari.

My cousin had a Renault 5Turbo 2. Mid engine, flared wheel arches, awesome.

Really desmolicious...What was his name? I was heavily involved with Alpine and Renault-Sport all through the 1980's and into the 1990's, servicing and importing parts for Alpines and R5Turbos...perhaps we had contact back then. And you are indeed correct..the car was truly awesome
 
I must ask about your screen name...are you a M-B 300SLR, Birdcage Maserati and /or Ducati fan?

If you knew it was injected, why did you say "no, that would flood it" instead of "no, pumping a FI car doesn't do anything"?

Or a Desmond with lots of charisma?
 
911Ray: Which year's Montreal GP was that? Would any of your friends mind putting that clip up on YouTube? I know it was embarassing and all, but I'd sure love to see it. For professional reasons only, of course! ;-)

Maybe he was confused, thinking it was a 1978 308 with a quartet of 42DCNF Webers perched atop it's inlet manifold?

That would have been 1994..and I'm sure none of my friend will have saved it this long. I might have a VHS incar video of the event, but it wont show anything except my wife Carole swearing.. me too. Actually now it's not embarassing....and I would just use it to illustrate just what steaming piles those Italian rats really are. A great selling tool for Porsche..or even used pintos.

fast911ray, my R5t2 experience was when I was living in England (great place to be from). There is nothing like being whipped around narrow single lane country roads by a relative keen on putting a scare in you!
The name is from my being a Ducatisti. Desmodremics + Delicious bikes = desmolicious! And I coined this years ago before Fergie came out with her Fergilicious!
Funny you mention the SLR, my dad had one (before I was born) and traded it in on an MB sedan when the first kid showed up. If only he kept it...

Small world. I too was a Ducatisti..an early bevel drive twin set up as a Daytona replica, an ST2 and 748SPS 'Monoposto'. And indeed, England IS a great place to be from.
 ..well maybe not so much anymore, with all the GATSO's around.
     Cheers
           R

Watch out for those "VTAK" Odysseys....LOL!

You want reliability? Buy a Camry or an Accord. You want a plaything? Get a Ferrari or a Porsche. For those of us who can only afford ONE car? MX5, 350z, WRX, or even a Mustang. A lot of fun, and it'll always start first thing in the morning. Life's good here in the not-so-rich-and-famous lane.

How about fixing the car instead of just sticking it out in the street? First off, that fuel smell could mean your 23 year old fuel lines need updating - something to check into on any old car. Next, get your gearbox adjusted -- I have a 328 and it shifts effortlessly when warm (yes, including reverse). A stream of coolant also isn't normal, and my car doesn't overheat sitting in traffic in the summer.
 
You bought a "bargain" Ferrari, not a restored showcar -- great 308 QVs are normally closer to $40K-$45K now. Readers here should not be misled into thinking you can spend $28K on a Ferrari and drive it like a Camry. And a 308 in proper repair is really a joy to drive. You just haven't got one.
 
With regard to the Porsche comments, I had a 993, and they're great cars -- just common and dull compared to the 308/328. Ferrari has always made high-maintenance cars, and for that you get a more visceral experience, rarity and striking looks. You could park a 993 next to the 308/328 and have two very different rides - one practical, one exotic.
 
(Fiat, btw, is a separate manufacturer, with a financial relationship to Ferrari. Ferrari manufactured the 308, largely by hand, in Maranello. Enzo Ferrari ran his company until his death in 1988. The comments about Fiat building Ferraris are misleading.)
 
If the point of this long-term test is to drive a bargain 308, invest no money in it and compare it to the 2007 cars in the Edmunds garage, I think you'll prove that old neglected Ferraris break down and aren't as fast as modern cars.

Obviously you guys are not understanding of what it takes to live with an old Ferrari. Just as reference, my 1982 308 with nearly 90,000 miles showing on the clock was recently driven to Miami, Florida and back (3,200 miles total) as our vacation transport without a single problem. Not to mention countless trips from Cincinnati to Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, etc...etc....
 
Perhaps you guys should stick with Nissan Altimas.

fast911tray - I don't think its fair to disrespect old Ferrari's the way you had. As an obvious Porsche fan boy, you make it sound like Porsche's are indestructible and perfect quality and engineering. My experience with them has shown they are prone to mechanical failure just like every other mechanical machine, and some of the Porsche "engineering" leaves me scratching my head. For example: having to remove the engine on a 911 turbo just to change the spark plugs? You call that good engineering? Then there's the whole putting the engine behind the rear axle thing - even Porsche admits that's not the smartest engineering move.
 
I've seen many 911's break on the track. They are hardly indestructible. Many guys who track their older 911's a lot end up swapping in Chevy small block V-8's because its more reliable, durable, and much cheaper to repair and replace than stock 911 motors.
 
Even if older 911's are more reliable than older Ferrari's, at least the Ferrari's don't look like descendants of the VW Super Beetle.
 
It's fine to love Porsche's - they are great cars in many ways. But they're not perfect (no car is).

You guys have a car that we Ferrari guys refer to as a "deferred maintenance car" which is to say that the previous owner couldn't afford to have it properly serviced, so everything on it is out of whack. That's what you get when you buy a $28K Quattrovalvole. Treat her right and she will treat you right. Specifically:
 
1) Van Halen doesn't dig Trans Ams.
 
2) Properly adjust your gearshift linkage. Then put Redline 75W-90 NS in your gearbox. It will shift fine.
 
3) See number 2.
 
4) Your injection needs to be adjusted and the car likely needs new fuel and vapor lines. The car is 24 years old and on the original rubber hoses! The breathers on the fuel tanks seep. This is also a fire hazard, by the way. Any 24 year old car with the original freakin' hoses has this issue.
 
5) You car is out of tune. Minivans are peppy, but not peppy enough to beat a QV in a drag race. It's a 7 second 0-60 car. Maybe not a rocket in this day and age, but pretty quick in '84....and still faster than a minivan. Either you can't drive or your car needs a tune up. Have you checked the compression?
 
6) Egads, you need to practice a little with a gated shifter!
 
7) It was annoyed that you didn't know how to shift.
 
8) Quit complaining and adjust the parking brake!
 
9) They all do that. Bad horsie! Then again, a lot of 24 year old cars drip oil...lets be fair.
 
10) The cooling system is either overfilled or not properly bled. Those are the two reasons they burb coolant. I will put money on the car being not bled right. It's tricky because the radiator is in the front, the engine in the back. long hoses between them, and two bleed screws. It takes effort to get all the air out.

Other than the Trans Am / Van Halen comment, I can't disagree with any of your digs/comments. ;-) I can give a car a pretty fair launch, and can pull decent 0-60 numbers, but the old-school gated shifter is new to me and lack of familiarity did slow my 1-2 upshift. More importantly, though, it didn't feel like it was running properly.
 
And I've heard stories of jacking the car up 11 different ways to chase the bubbles in the cooling system to the bleed holes.
 
Like I said in the original post - I'll give it another shot when I know its running the way its supposed to.
 
Still, I'm already more than convinced that a $28k 308 is no bargain. I sense a disturbance in the wallet.

Don't feel bad, the gated shifter requires practice no matter how you slice it, and it is never as slick shifting as a new Honda. Things have improved in 24 years.
 
Judging by where the coolant is coming from in the picture, it may not be the overflow tube as the source. You might have popped a hose. Typically though, when that happens a LOT more coolant comes out! I just changed out the hoses on mine and some of them were in pretty sad shape, especially the ones in the "V" of the engine where they get really hot.
 
There is a procedure on my website to properly bleed the cooling system: www.birdmanferrari.com. Not hard, just needs to be done methodically. You don't need to jack it up, just bleed both ends with the heat on, drive a little, bleed again, drive a little, bleed one more time.
 
Lastly, I don't know about Eddie Van Halen, but Sammie drives a Daytona...he's a Ferrari guy. :-)
 
Birdman